AlwaysinBoost

iTrader: (17)

This was buried in another thread so I figured since its important I would make a post specifically for this issue.

Currently we have the right tools available to us to pin-point EXACTLY what load cells are cars are functioning in. Its so simple that anyone can figure it out, in fact I completely overlooked it until MAD_VIII pointed it out to me.

This absolutly works 100% as I've been tuning my car for the last two days using this method and now have ZERO knock and a very fast EVO.

Using the EVOScan program that MAD4EVO created and the EVOScan log reader that Second Chance created are the only tools we need. Obviously a WB needed too but I hope anyone who is going to attempt tuning would already have that tool.

After you do a pull open the log file with Second Chances' reader program. Then look at your RPM and timing values at the top of the log and cross reference them to your Fuel and Timing maps in ECU flash.



In the log above I'm at 19* @ 7k RPM; on my timing & A/F maps in ECU flash that coorolates to this section highlighted below:



I know those pics are a little hard to see but basically thats all there is to it.

Using that method I was able to pin-point my load for virtually every RPM and tune my map to absolutly ZERO knock in the 90*+ heat and 100% humidity so I know it works.

This is so simple that ANYONE with a laptop can do it. And the best part is we aren't even seeing boost & A/F yet, once we're able to log those parimeters look out.

This is really an exciting time to be an EVO owner!!

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

Yep, that is how I had been doing it with my ECU+, However keep in mind that if you have adjacent cells with the same timing value, it might be a 50/50 shot..

AlwaysinBoost

iTrader: (17)

true.. but keep in mind as other compentent tuners have already mentioned you 'shouldn't' have the same timing value in a cell at 220 as you do in 240.

If you noticed on my timing map with the exception of that hard to tune/high load area <3000 RPM all the timing values DROP with an increase in load. Believe me I tried to run 8* of timing at 4500 RPM in the 300 load section but my engine didn't like it.

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

I should have pointed out that I do the same thing.. Only I have seen maps with large blocks of timing "filled in" and would make it fairly difficult to tune, I'd probably start over from scratch if i had to work with one of those maps.

I've had the same overall experience as you had with the harder areas in the low RPM HIgh Load region, It seems that with my new GT35r it isn't as much of an issue since it doesnt go that high as early..

dudical26

iTrader: (17)

I'm not sure that you can do this. I am familiar with tuning a Subaru ecu and I am not sure if the same thing applies for Evo. Anyway, with the Subaru ECU if a data logger displayed a timing value of 8 degrees @ 5,000 RPM. This did not mean that you were necessarily in that column in the ECU map. The ECU figures out timing by looking at the timing value in the map and then using some sort of knock correction factor to determine how to modify the looked up timing value. This is how the ECU can pull timing without actually going into the High Det Fuel map. So if the data logger says you are running 8 deg of timing, what might be happening is the ECU is looking up a timing value of say 10, however it is experiencing some knock so it is running 8 degrees of timing.

If this is not the way that the Evo Ecu’s work then my mistake. However, I have come to learn that this is the way that a Subaru ECU works and I think they might be similar in that regard.

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

Thats actually a very good point, and its true to an extent.. However you can for the most part get to the right place if you need to.. If you know knock is present, then you can look at the adacent cells and adjust them as a group..

This is a perfect example of why you flatten maps for tuning purposes, and then put a low octane map back in after your done.. It takes some of the guessing out of it...

AlwaysinBoost

iTrader: (17)

this is where part of the 'art of tuning' comes in. First off I'll address the knock issue. As long as the ECU isn't seeing knock, which we know by looking at the EVOScan logs then you absolutly do fall into the coorsponding cell on the timing map.

However if the ECU is seeing knock you need to use some creative logic to figure out which cell your actually in. This is pretty easy though because you have the correct RPM value to narrow it down. I usually start at the RPM/load point where knock just begins and adjust my values from there. That way you know exactly where you are on the map. If you can find a point after the knock even you can extrapolate the two values and basically "draw a line" showing the load path the ECU took and adjust it.

I've found the ECU won't pull timing if there is only 1 count of knock, unless the knock is present for a long period of time. That threshold is a little less tolorant on 2 counts, meaning much less time until it pulls timing. On 3 counts I usually see 2*'s of timing being pulled or more depending on how long the knock lasts.

justchil

iTrader: (44)

Can someone please post up a link to the tool Second Chance made? I've read about it but either I'm blind or not looking in the right thread.

Noogles

iTrader: (-1)

tunning is all a game of numbers...... All the ECU can see are those numbers, once we can figure out the load Algorithm it'll be a differnt story but for now i won't mind using this method specially since the program can log nock. Even if it doesn't go ino the hight det table it will still let us know what it sees and we can make those adjustments.

AlwaysinBoost

iTrader: (17)

http://forums.openecu.org/viewtopic.php?p=6085#6085

you need to be logged in to view the attachment.

justchil

iTrader: (44)

Ahh that's why. I emailed the admin but I registered a month ago and my account never became active.

Can anyone email it to me? justchil at justchil dot net. I'd really appreciate it.

AlwaysinBoost

iTrader: (17)

Please give this method a try are report back your results... I would love to hear your input/feedback.

AlwaysinBoost

iTrader: (17)

YGM

Noogles

iTrader: (-1)

With my personal car I haven't actually used volcano because I have a fun Innovative DL-32 system wired in.

I'll spend some time using it this week and I’ll see what I can find out.

Another thing that is different is tuning in large blocks that other tuners have said is not a good idea.

I have always tuned with this method. If a car can run the same amount of timing at 260 load and 220 why not run it? There is no reason to loss power in the spirit of having a pretty table.

Another thing with this program is actually the ability to giver a specific time for the injector pulse width. In some cases changing the target by .1 has altered the AF by .2 until we can get that precision on control I will have to disagree with the other knowledgeable tuners.

Ludikraut

iTrader: (17)

AlwaysinBoost, that is exactly how I used my OBD-II logs to figure out what load cells my car was hitting and how I was able to verify that I needed additional load columns past the factory 260.

l8r)