jcsbanks

jrsimon 27, what boost curve?

I pulled 1 degree out at 6000-6500, but I have the AVC-R duty set to maximum there, I've got the boost target at 1.55 kg/cm^2 (about 22 PSI) there which it will pull in 4th gear or above, but the baseline wastegate duty cycle is set to 90% there, so I'm probably making some EGBP, but on the dyno it did gain power running more boost and less timing.

jrsimon27

iTrader: (1)

the boost is set at 1.52bar in my car sometimes i even spike to 1.6bar but in cold weather

jcsbanks

My timing looks quite similar then at 4000 and 5000 RPM... but less at 6000 and 7000 RPM.

What boost at 6000-7000 RPM?

zyounker

iTrader: (1)

What heat range plugs are you running? This may have something to do with it.. In my RX7 i use to run heat rang 10 or 11 depending on how hard i was pushing it. Prolly not comparable for the evo, so do some research.

This thread would be a lot easier to speculate, if you had the maps on here to compare.


-Zach

jrsimon27

iTrader: (1)

between 6000 and 7000rpm i have boost between 1.4 and 1.3bar

zyounker

iTrader: (1)

What do your spark plugs look like? Do they all look uniform??


If one is off, change them all and see if it repeats. may want to get your injectors balanced and blueprinted. (the spark plugs should tell you if there is an issue)

modvp

iTrader: (13)

Base on the above, it appears that you are in the 220-230% load cell at 4000-5000 rpm and drops to ~180-190% above 6500 rpm. Pretty good.

jcsbanks

Thanks jrsimon.

I'm running stock plugs (heat range 7 I believe, always found this OK on the Subarus to 500 BHP, although I used racing 8s on that as they lasted longer, but I had no detonation problems on 7s), and the car only has 7000 miles. Most of the 400 BHP Evos in the UK also run stock plugs without issues, I think unless there is a clear issue I'd rather not change them given the problems with Denso iridiums losing tips and taking out heads on Subarus etc). I've not pulled them - it makes excellent power and torque and I'm getting no misses. It takes huge boost without detonation with quite lean fuelling (I just richen it because I think it is healthier and I don't like to beat on a car that runs lean for any length of time) as long as I have the correct timing, and it makes power for the extra boost which I think is the key point. I've let it overboost to 1.9 bar without event on this map although I don't run that all the time, just tested briefly.

I do appreciate all the opinions. I am being clear though that the car performs brilliantly, I'm more just asking the question as to why you guys run so much timing, can you show a gain of x lbft per degree added for example? Once the logging software is up to scratch I'll run road traces of various boost and timing levels to see how the curves converge at various RPM levels to decide further on optimum. I don't like dyno tunes as they never seem to go as well or as safely as a road tune...

I'm prepared to learn though and appreciate all the input.

zyounker

iTrader: (1)

Well, you are getting knock from something. I would at least check the plugs to make sure they are all a uniform color. If they are then no problems. also, at 7K miles they are pretty close to where i would replace them anyway.. i usually replaced my plugs at 10K miles.

As for irridium plugs.. I would *never* run them. I just go with cheap resistor core plugs like the NGK plugs for motorcycles (avaliable in more heat ranges for cheap). but when i change out my stock plugs i will go with a similar plug for the evo after a bit or research.


All the other stuff was done on previous turboed RX7s


-Zach

jcsbanks

I'm not getting knock though because I'm running timing so it doesn't. Have you played with a IX? I am wondering if there are differences here.

Here is my timing map:

http://images.fotopic.net/?id=31363616&noresize=1

This is altered from the JDM GSR by retarding 1 degree at 6000-6500, and flattening some timing at 120-220% from 3000-4500 RPM to get rid of lift off det. At 240% load or higher apart from at 6000-6500 RPM it runs stock timing. This map has been changed a little since the logs I took that I posted about earlier, but I think I'm reading from the 260% load zone after hitting peak boost.

More importantly here is my dyno plot showing 345 WHP and 399 BHP in a similar state of tune except richer at the top: (there are lots of plots as I was trying different boost levels. This dyno read 20 WHP above Dyno Dynamics shoot44 on the same tune, but 20 BHP less than the estimated flywheel figures (less lossy dyno), us Brits also like flywheel figures for many good reasons but we don't need to go into that here - it does read the stock FQ340 at 345 BHP which is what it is supposed to be though. Whatever, it should be 325 WHP Dyno Dynamics on 98 RON which is about the best this spec has managed in the UK, there are a lot hovering 20 WHP lower.

http://images3.fotopic.net/?iid=yh5g...ze=1&nostamp=1

jcsbanks

Here is the pro-tune I received the car with - http://john824.fotopic.net/p28539238.html plotted against the stock FQ340 ECU with decat exhaust. Since then it is markedly faster everywhere, at least 20 WHP more on the dyno since I changed to AVC-R and used ECUflash to improve the maps, although notably I'm not actually running particularly less timing at similar boost levels - just doesn't seem to pull as much and I've tidied up the fuelling - it was 13:1 on full boost and 10:1 at the top on the pro-tune!

ScrappyJack

iTrader: (1)

I would assume a big part of the equation is the previous lack of datalogging. I would venture that the majority of people in the US who have mail-in or dyno flashes did not have dataloggers and therefore, could not answer your question properly as to whether or not their aggressive timing maps were causing significant knock sums. As such, you will probably find some people that say their cars "do not knock," but have neither logged knock sum nor timing.

Fuel should not be an issue. 98 RON, as I understand it, is roughly equivalent to 93 R+M/2.

jcsbanks - When you say you tuned out the knock, how did you determine the car was knocking? Were you logging knock sum (with EvoScan, for instance) or logging timing (with a DL32, LMA3, PocketLogger, etc) and guessing based on what you thought was a disparity in displayed timing vs expected timing?

jcsbanks

I have a knocklink, det cans, and I hear it knocking in the cabin when the knocklink pings a bit red - I don't hear green or orange spikes without the det cans, but I hear all sorts of knock in most turbo Sub/Mits cars I go in that other people have tuned I had a matching spike to 15 or 16 on lift off on Evoscan just after the timing advanced immediately after lifting the throttle. I would get smaller spikes on occasion in the same areas with smaller spikes on the knocklink.

I trust my ears through det cans above all, the rest is subject to that gold standard. How many of you are doing the same?

zyounker

iTrader: (1)

Even if the car is tunned to not knock, the plugs may still differ in color which will give you a good idea if one cylinder is running leaner/richer then the others. which is keeping you from upping the timming.

Not saying thats an issue, but it should be something you check everytime you change your plugs and when tuning i would check them even more then that.

The other possibility that scrappy jack is eluding to is that it may be drivetrain noise or something else tripping the knock sensor. Maybe you are not really knocking? (Plugs would also have confirmed this)


-Zach


EDIT: just saw your reply.. so you can ignore this post for the most part :P

Ludikraut

iTrader: (17)

I think that people are referring to this statement:

It is a little bit misleading, since the first sentence makes no mention of meth.

l8r)