Mad_SB

iTrader: (8)

Well FWIW man, I don't think you can do the fuel maps without pulling the timing maps way down, there is no way in he!! I can run the stock timing maps above 5k or so without getting lots o knock..... Plus the timing will affect AFR's

I think I have my timing down now (probably real close to yours, 4* at PT and 15-16 at 7k), at least well enough to get the fuel maps fine tuned. I'm targetting 11.8 in second, 11.5 in third, 11.2 in 4th..... getting very close now!

Then I will add some cams a 10.5 hotside, O2 housing, 680's and do it all over again

nj1266

iTrader: (6)

Here is my input:

1. You need to download and install Logworks 2. You are still using the old version and the new one has many more features, although it has some bugs that need to be worked out.

2. While getting to peak boost you seem to have a hump in the AFR. You need to take care of that. When approaching peak boost your AFR should be becoming richer until it bottoms out at peak boost and them it starts to lean out again. This approahc is even in the stock ECU and is designed to protect from knock since the highest likelihood of knock happens at peak boost/torque.

3. Your AFR jumps up at 6000 rpm. In 3rd gear it jumps to 11.85 and in 4th to 11.25. Any ideas why?

Just so you understand what I am saying in 1, here is my latest log:

AlwaysinBoost

iTrader: (17)

I switch back and forth between LW1 and LW2 depending on which laptop I use.
For some reason it works on one and not the other...

I fixed the issue with the A/F ratio. As I mentioned before, and in other posts, I worked on my logs *** backwards doing the timing first and then the fuel.

This is a screen shot from a 4th gear pull last night.


Car still feels awesome in this heat.

nj1266

iTrader: (6)

That is much better. A few questions:

1. Why does your boost peak @ 4K rpm? Mine peaks at 3500 rpm. Is this a stock turbo or do the 04 Evo peak later?

2. You seem to be running a tad rich in the 4-5k area but I am not sure since the pic is so small.

3. At 6500 rpm you seem to hit 11.55 AFR in 4th gear. I think that is too lean for 4th gear load. If you do the same pull in 3rd gear then your 11.55 might hit 11.9 @ 6500 rpm. That might be too lean for pump gas, unless you have retarded your timing as a pre-caution.

dan l

iTrader: (3)

Getting back to the weather topic:

Some cars actually will knock more in the cold than the heat. This has to due with the fact that they are on the limits of the fuel system (specificall the injectors, sometimes the pump) in the heat, then a cold day comes by and they are lean in boost and knock starts. Also some people's higher load range timing maps aren't properly tapered for cold weather operation and even if the fuel is their, the timing is too agressive. Just something to note.

AlwaysinBoost

iTrader: (17)

Not sure what was going on with the boost on that log, it is very possible I was going down a steep hill. THere is one on the 'route' I go to tune.

I think my car spools pretty fast for what it is. Here is a log I just checked from the same night where it took me a whole 2 seconds to go from 2.7psi @ 2920 RPM to 21.7psi @ 3510 RPM.



Also note the RED line is TPS, the throttle was only WO for half a second.


That is where my car hits peak TQ so it will the richest. Besides that according to my knock sensors thats how the car likes it.

Obviously the timing has been adjusted, that is the whole point of tuning.

From the logs you posted previously in this thread you seem to be hitting the same A/F at the same RPM so I don't really see your point...

not to sound like an *** but from some of the threads I've seen you comment on I don't believe you have a clue what your talking about. You seem to make comments and false statements in technical threads on a regular basis. Then when people who actually know what they are talking about provide FACTS to support their information you vanish.

nj1266

iTrader: (6)

That was a 3rd gear pull and not a 4th gear pull that I posted. I do not have open road to do a 4th gear pull. I am tuning my AFR to be 11.5:1 after peak torque/boost in Third gear. That will make it around 11.2:1 in fourth gear.

Your AFR in 3rd gear will be leaner than your AFR in 4th gear. I am not re-inventing the wheel here. Try a Third gear pull and see where your AFR will end up at 6500 rpm. Please post your results. I am curious to know if you will hit 11.9:1.

Do what ever you want. Next time do not ask people to COMMENT and then when you do not like what they have to say attack them. You do know what COMMENT means, right???

RazorLab

iTrader: (8)

So you're not believing in 12.5 AFR's anymore nj1266?

Depends on if its a straight pull or from 3rd to 4th, again, here is a graph from 3rd and 4th, same AFRS in both gears. Look at the orange bars for easy reference.

nj1266

iTrader: (6)

I still believe in it. If you recall I said I will run at 11.5:1 until I get my EGT gauge. I am happy to say that AMS found a Defi D for me and shipped it. After I install the gauge and log my EGTs, I will lean out to 12:1. Next step is to tkae the car to the dyno and listen to it with the Snap-on stethoscope to see if there is knock. Then AND ONLY THEN I will tune to 12.5:1. This is going to take time and will be done on the dyno. All in good time my friend
Unfortunately, my data says otherwise and it has been confirmed by two different widebands, the Innovate and the Dynojet. Here are my two of three 3rd to 4th gear logs. I could not go the full rpm distance in 4th gear due to road conditions. If you ignore the AFR at peak boost/torque in 4th gear and focus on the rpm points at 6100 rpm and 6330 rpm in 3rd and 4th gear in the logs, you will find that the AFR in 4th gear is almost exactly 0.39 richer than in 3rd gear in BOTH logs. That is remarkably consistent.






I have also had a full third gear and a full 4th gear done on the same day at almost the same time on the same dyno with the same gas and found the AFR in 4th gear to be richer than in 3th gear. So it is not only my Innovate that is giving these readings, but the dynojet wideband that is giving these readings as well.



Finally, I have also had my findings confirmed by the folks at the Innovate forums.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/f...ead.php?t=4109

RazorLab

iTrader: (8)

OK guess my car and its tune breaks all the rules then. That crazy car.

What is the timing difference @ 6300 in 3rd and 4th in your car?

nj1266

iTrader: (6)

Your car is NOT crazy. It is very possible that your methodology is different than mine. There are so many variables to testing that unless we put my car and your on the dyno on the same day with the same gas and tune, then we cannot really tell for sure. I am just giving out the data that I have and you are doing the same so we can all learn.

I have not logged the Xede adjusted timing since I figured out how to do it yesterday. On Monday I will do a log on my way to work and I will get back to you.

RazorLab

iTrader: (8)

Also remember the AFR changes because the load changes in higher gears. Tune that correctly and you will see hardly any variance like my log above.