ROK EVO

iTrader: (14)

I just bought a laptop to tune my IX. Now I am looking to purchase a wideband and came across this option on Innovative website; http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/tactrix.php. So,

if I buy this package, will I have pretty much everything to tune the car? Also, are there any compatibility issues between Ecuflash and Window Vista? Any comments or feedbacks will be appreciated! Thanks.

-Sung

zlancer

iTrader: (1)

awesome wideband!...i have the LC-1 with the XD-16 in my turbo minivan and it sure does give accurate readings.

dennyt4

iTrader: (43)

I have the Innovative LC-1 and the XD-16 gauge, and it is definitely accurate and I like having the guage on my a-pillar, but if I were doing it again I would get a full Zeitronix setup...it can do so many things, and I'll be running meth so some of it's features would have been nice to have.

Nothing wrong with Innovative at all - don't get me wrong, I just think I would do a Zeitronix.

Good luck

Sayno

I had no problems using ECUFlash and mitsulogger on my vista laptop

jfitzpat

I'm actually curious about this. I've heard it a couple of times. What exactly are the features that you need that you cannot put together with MTS modules? I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just curious. In general, our modules are considered pretty flexible. Much as our widebands have always had two fully programmable analog outs, something like the SSI-4 has inputs that can be repurposed (freqency, duty cycle, analog input). And even the LMA-3, with its own board sensors, offers pretty flexible configuration.

I would have thought that the principle advantage of the Zt2 would be installation ease. Some essentially fixed purpose inputs and good wiring support on specific Evos. I would normally have thought that with our modular architecture, with highly configurable modules, would generally be more flexible and ultimately more capable (8 EGT, 8 CHT, accell, side force, cyl by cyl AFR (plus the usual ECU params)? No problem...)

We definately have a pro racing slant, but we sell an awful lot of widebands to street tuners. So if there are some features that community really benefits from, we'd like to hear about them.

-jjf

bhcevo

Of course the innovative products are ultimately more capable (more inputs).

Its not clear from a casual inspection of the innovative website and product line what exactly you would need to log boost, tps, etc... Lots of products kind of confusing.

The zt-2 website is pretty much for dummies by comparison...tells you exactly what it can log etc.

So basically its a presentation issue.

I run zt-2 because its capable and thats what my mechanic likes. Everything else about equal, stick to what your mechanic has experience with.

For what its worth I certainly appreciate some of the innovative features that the zeitronix lacks. Doing data logging without a laptop running windows would be enormously useful for one. I believe the innovative box can log directly to an sd memory card?

dennyt4

iTrader: (43)

PM'd

roger smith

iTrader: (4)

I got the LC-1 stand-alone installed in my car. It works great.
Mitsulogger doesn't support it at the moment I believe, but sure can in the future.
You could also use evoscan or the logworks that Innovate provide.

EvoBroMA

why PM'd :[ i think others would benefit from the pro's cons of the zt2 vs lc1

i know that innovate products will do pretty much anything you could want, so im curious as to why someone would go with zeitronix.

jfitzpat

I wouldn't disagree. I think a lot has to do with scale. We sell tens of thousands of widebands each year, to a lot of different markets. The needs of a street tuner, a NASCAR team, and an ECU maker don't always overlap, so it is hard to focus a simple message. By contrast, a company that sells primarily to just a few markets often has an easier time of spelling things out and simplifying things like specific vehicle installs.

If you trust a mechanic, there is certainly nothing wrong with using the tools recommended. However, Zeitronix and Innovate are substantially different lambda instruments. They even use wholly different measurement principles.

I think this is worth mentioning for a couple of reasons. First, a lot of street enthusiasts buy something like our LC-1 wideband because of price. But they are buying the same instrument that is frequently plumbed into pro racing vehicles in large sets (ex. cyl by cyl for carb applications). Marketing folks might hype this as a plus, but it can be a potential minus. For example, the instrument is about 250 times faster than a conventional current based wideband, so it is more particular about proper grounding. Similiarly, it is designed for track performance tuning, so it uses free air calibration instead of relying on the factory cal resistor in the sensor (as you can see here, Bosch does not spec the resistor as being all that accurate to begin with and accuracy degrades quite a bit more early in the sensor life - also, the cal resistor is only for standard partial pressure of O2, and tracks are not always at sea level or run only on standard pressure and temp days).

If a user's needs are not particularly precise or demanding, things like free air calibration and getting error reports about things like Bosch's max bung temp being exceeded (which does significantly shorten sensor life, but generally only creates .1 AFR or so of error) can just seem annoying. In other words, features that can seem great to someone running very aggressive tunes at different locales, can just seem like a PITA to users with different needs.

The second reason I think it is important is that understanding the differences between widebands can help you get a lot more out of the one you have. For example, abnormal combustion events like missfires and detonation are reported very differently by an LC-1 and a Zt2. Knowing how a particular wideband responds to these types of events can help you get a lot more information out of your logs. Similiarly, the instruments have dramatically different latencies and response curves. Although this is not super critical in fuel map tuning (most current-based widebands are only about one fuel map column late on a typical 3rd gear pull), knowing an instrument's latency and response curve can be very helpful in timing and valve tuning.

We offer two widebands. Our original LM-1 is a portable/handheld. It has a built in LCD display and has built in flash logging for AFR/lambda and 5 additional analog inputs. The LM-1 logs can be downloaded to a computer, and realtime logs from an LM-1 can be made directly on a computer.

The LC-1 is an AFR/lambda module designed for permanent installations. It has no built in logging capabilities, but like the LM-1, can be logged directly to a computer.

Both widebands also have two, fully programmable, analog outputs. So the units can be used with numerous 3rd party data loggers and replacement ECUs/piggybacks as well.

Basically all our data acquisition modules can be combined into a loggable "MTS chain". This can be logged into a computer. We also offer a DL-32 which will log up to 32 MTS channels onto an SD card (the DL-32 also has some built in sensors and external inputs of its own - MAP, accell, side force, etc.) It seems most popular in racing, combined with multiple in car LC-1s.

-jjf

RnRjames

iTrader: (1)

great piece of equipment.. i have had mine for 2 years and have only had to replace the 02 sensor once. but it has been in many midpipes, w/ a lot of race fuel on it

dennyt4

iTrader: (43)

Sorry - just wanted to discuss and find out some information from him.

I run meth in my car so Zeitronix has some capabilities to act as an additional failsafe for me - that's why I would go with it if I were starting over.

As far as logging capabilities or ease of installation/use, my Innovative is great, and it has a lower price entry point if you find the right deal on Ebay.

Absolutely nothing wrong with either setup for monitoring multiple inputs, however price goes up on each unit as you want more capabilities. Not sure which would cost more if you matched up feature for feature, but I would guess it would be the Innovative system.

All just my 2 cents, so take it for what it's worth, know what you plan on doing with your car, and do some research

cij911

iTrader: (14)

I like the built in failsafes that come with the ZT2...Additionally the ZT2 is cheaper to use if you want to log boost and EGT.....If you just want AFR, then the Innovative is probably easier / cheaper IMHO...

jfitzpat

Yes, for just lambda/AFR, an LC-1 is $80 cheaper. If you want to tap into factory sensors, the ZT2 is $20 cheaper. If you need add a boost sensor, want accel and side force, etc., it generally swings our way again, since we have multi sensor boxes like the LMA-3.

FWIW, our XD-16 gauge does do multi-channel, conditional logic alarms.

-jjf

andenbre

iTrader: (4)

With the innovate setup you get jfitzpat who actively trolls the forums answering questions and helping in any way he can and Klaus who is very helpful with any problems that may arise also.