lean idle? perfect cruise/wot
Oct 26, 2007, 02:08 PM
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lean idle? perfect cruise/wot
I recently switched out to the HAFE 3076 setup. And a base map to go with it. Injectors are FIC 850's. (scaled to 750)
I plugged in the latency values found in the inj scaling thread that were posted. All my a/f tables are pretty close on the WB. I've gotten pretty good at eyeballing the Innovate and where abouts I should be on the load map. And its very close almost everywhere. Except idle. I'm throwing lean code too.
Which means the fuel trims are off still.
Evoscan hates me. It won't stay connected, and I'm unfamiliar with it, so I've resorted to using my memory of the A/F map and watching the WB, tach, and boost gauge to get an idea of where it should be and where it is.
Sounds silly. But I can't seem to get evoscan to work right.
What do I need to adjust to correct my idle (idling at 17-22~1)
Things that may have something to do with it. Again I'm new to this so, bear with me.
The 4" intake. (which was previously the stock snorkel tube)
The mini battery & batt voltage at idle being different making the latency not match up right.
Am I on the right path. What should I adjust to help with the low air settings?
I assume the maf scaling, but what specifically?
(I am used to DSMlink's Hz sliders for adjusting low air speed settings on the MAF)
If anyone wants to give me a point in the right direction or some things to try I will be greatful. Car runs absolutely great except idle.
I plugged in the latency values found in the inj scaling thread that were posted. All my a/f tables are pretty close on the WB. I've gotten pretty good at eyeballing the Innovate and where abouts I should be on the load map. And its very close almost everywhere. Except idle. I'm throwing lean code too.
Which means the fuel trims are off still.
Evoscan hates me. It won't stay connected, and I'm unfamiliar with it, so I've resorted to using my memory of the A/F map and watching the WB, tach, and boost gauge to get an idea of where it should be and where it is.
Sounds silly. But I can't seem to get evoscan to work right.
What do I need to adjust to correct my idle (idling at 17-22~1)
Things that may have something to do with it. Again I'm new to this so, bear with me.
The 4" intake. (which was previously the stock snorkel tube)
The mini battery & batt voltage at idle being different making the latency not match up right.
Am I on the right path. What should I adjust to help with the low air settings?
I assume the maf scaling, but what specifically?
(I am used to DSMlink's Hz sliders for adjusting low air speed settings on the MAF)
If anyone wants to give me a point in the right direction or some things to try I will be greatful. Car runs absolutely great except idle.
Oct 26, 2007, 05:18 PM
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lol... I have had the EXACT same problems ever since I put on my 1000's and fuel rail... Have been fighting with it for 3 weeks when I have time. Maybe try and scale your injectors a little more...
Oct 26, 2007, 05:29 PM
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But my A/F ratios are dead on all thru the rev range. Cruise is dead on the nuts. I watch the Innovate religiously. Its all I look at. The boost curve I know to be exactly where I set it. (44mm Tial = rock solid)
So I KNOW that its running lean most likely due to a low voltage latency setting. (Because I'm idling out of the typical v range for the setting)
Or the addition of the intake is really changing the way the slow moving air is being read in the MAF.
I just don't know what to change to feed it more gas @ 850 rpm. What MAF table in ecuflash corresponds to the low Hz section on the MAF? Which way to I adjust the readings to tell it its seeing more/less air at idle? This should fix a lean idle issue without altering the rest of my fuel tables right? Since they are pretty much right on the button?
You guys know this like the back of your hand. I could go get one of our guys to tune the car for me. But I'd like to learn myself. I'm off all weekend and I wanted to sit down and play with this to learn more.
I just need to know what I should be looking at changing.
So I KNOW that its running lean most likely due to a low voltage latency setting. (Because I'm idling out of the typical v range for the setting)
Or the addition of the intake is really changing the way the slow moving air is being read in the MAF.
I just don't know what to change to feed it more gas @ 850 rpm. What MAF table in ecuflash corresponds to the low Hz section on the MAF? Which way to I adjust the readings to tell it its seeing more/less air at idle? This should fix a lean idle issue without altering the rest of my fuel tables right? Since they are pretty much right on the button?
You guys know this like the back of your hand. I could go get one of our guys to tune the car for me. But I'd like to learn myself. I'm off all weekend and I wanted to sit down and play with this to learn more.
I just need to know what I should be looking at changing.
Oct 26, 2007, 07:48 PM
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thats part of tuning the car. i would scale the injectors to get the idle right so you don't throw a code. then go and adjust the open loop tables accordingly. of course if your happy with the open loop, and don't want to touch it, you can always just live with throwing codes and running rediculously lean at idle 
one other thing though, boost leaks cause the car to run lean at idle, and rich when in the boost. might want to check for leaks sense you got a new turbo and all.
one other thing though, boost leaks cause the car to run lean at idle, and rich when in the boost. might want to check for leaks sense you got a new turbo and all.
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Oct 26, 2007, 11:04 PM
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You are going to have to look at your fuel trims both mid (cruising) and low (idle). What you have to do is balance the injector scaling and the injector latency voltage.
What I have found is that latency affects idle more than cruising so you are going to have to modify the latency so that both the low trim and mid trim are about the same then modify the scaling to get them both to approximatly zero. It is mostly trial and error and takes a good deal of driving time till the trims settle down.
Caution, this will throw off your OLF map and you will have to remap it. Be careful.
What I have found is that latency affects idle more than cruising so you are going to have to modify the latency so that both the low trim and mid trim are about the same then modify the scaling to get them both to approximatly zero. It is mostly trial and error and takes a good deal of driving time till the trims settle down.
Caution, this will throw off your OLF map and you will have to remap it. Be careful.
Oct 26, 2007, 11:05 PM
#9
The scaling can be correct enough to have your fuel at WOT spot on. If your latencies are off then cruise and/or idle can be bad.
What do your fuel trims say? If you are idling at 17 your fuel trim at idle might be maxed out full rich and still not be able to compensate enough so it's still lean. However your latencies would need to be really off.
You say your idle volts are less than your cruise volts? What are your latencies in the idle volts? What are your fuel trims at idle?
Why are you idling at different volts then cruise?
What do your fuel trims say? If you are idling at 17 your fuel trim at idle might be maxed out full rich and still not be able to compensate enough so it's still lean. However your latencies would need to be really off.
You say your idle volts are less than your cruise volts? What are your latencies in the idle volts? What are your fuel trims at idle?
Why are you idling at different volts then cruise?
Oct 26, 2007, 11:56 PM
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mini battery, idle @ 850? ^
4.6875 ~ 3.312
7.03125 ~ 2.04
9.375 ~ 0.960
11.7188 ~ 0.600________ idle
14.0625 ~ 0.336________ cruise
16.4062 ~ 0.192
18.6768 ~ 0.096
I just punched in the ones posted in the scaling thread from the table.
(For FIC 850's)
I'm going to try to get something out of evoscan tomorrow to be sure of this. But it won't stay connected for me. My laptop is a pos and just hates evo scan.
My cruise fluctuates between 14.2 and 14.8. More so than with the stockers. I could hold an almost dead 14.5 ~ 14.9 bounce. With slow shift. Its about 3-4x as quick of a fluctuation now.
All my part throttle stuff is good. Even on soft boosting. A/F falls in direct correlation to boost. At wot / full boost I hit whats in the cells on my high octane table. Car doesn't knock at all. Part throttle up hill 5th gear is the only time I see it. ( I have the CEL/knock mod so I can see it always)
Sorry for the noob sh** guys. But, alas, I am a noob with this.
4.6875 ~ 3.312
7.03125 ~ 2.04
9.375 ~ 0.960
11.7188 ~ 0.600________ idle
14.0625 ~ 0.336________ cruise
16.4062 ~ 0.192
18.6768 ~ 0.096
I just punched in the ones posted in the scaling thread from the table.
(For FIC 850's)
I'm going to try to get something out of evoscan tomorrow to be sure of this. But it won't stay connected for me. My laptop is a pos and just hates evo scan.
My cruise fluctuates between 14.2 and 14.8. More so than with the stockers. I could hold an almost dead 14.5 ~ 14.9 bounce. With slow shift. Its about 3-4x as quick of a fluctuation now.
All my part throttle stuff is good. Even on soft boosting. A/F falls in direct correlation to boost. At wot / full boost I hit whats in the cells on my high octane table. Car doesn't knock at all. Part throttle up hill 5th gear is the only time I see it. ( I have the CEL/knock mod so I can see it always)
Sorry for the noob sh** guys. But, alas, I am a noob with this.
Oct 27, 2007, 12:02 AM
#11
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But its the same when I push the clutch in at a stop light. I idle anywhere from 17-24. blipping the throttle pulls it back for a second... but then it climbs right back up.
Going back to read the entire thread you posted now.
Oct 27, 2007, 12:08 AM
#12
Your idle volts are probably low because the car is struggling to idle because of the bad latencies.
You really need to check your fuel trims. I personally use Mitsulogger for this. It's free so give it a try.
I'll bet you a beer if you bump up the latencies at 14.0 and 11.7 your idle will start to clear up.
Again, your in-boost AFR is fine because your scaling is probably pretty close and since the car moves into open loop fueling then and doesn't depend on fuel trims off the latencies, which it does at idle and cruise.
You need to see your fuel trims correctly to get the latencies set correctly.
You really need to check your fuel trims. I personally use Mitsulogger for this. It's free so give it a try.
I'll bet you a beer if you bump up the latencies at 14.0 and 11.7 your idle will start to clear up.
Again, your in-boost AFR is fine because your scaling is probably pretty close and since the car moves into open loop fueling then and doesn't depend on fuel trims off the latencies, which it does at idle and cruise.
You need to see your fuel trims correctly to get the latencies set correctly.
Oct 27, 2007, 09:28 AM
#13
As everyone has mentioned, log your fuel trims and make sure that you are logging the correct requests, as EvoScan has the incorrect requests for them.
It's most likely a simple fuel trim issue that can be corrected with latency and scaling adjustments. If you are used to DSMLink, your latencies are your deadtime and your injector scaling is your global fuel setting. Tuning the injectors is the same method as if you were using DSMLink. Use your latencies to get your idle and cruise trims to match, then the injector scaling to get them both to 0. The latency will affect idle more because of the lower injector pulsewidth at ilde than at cruise.
Also, do you have the breather hose connected from the valve cover to the turbo intake pipe? If not, this will cause very positive idle trims and even cruise trims. If you don't have that hose hooked up, that can be one of the main causes of your problem. If you try to properly tune injectors without it, you will run into many problems, very similar to this.
Eric
It's most likely a simple fuel trim issue that can be corrected with latency and scaling adjustments. If you are used to DSMLink, your latencies are your deadtime and your injector scaling is your global fuel setting. Tuning the injectors is the same method as if you were using DSMLink. Use your latencies to get your idle and cruise trims to match, then the injector scaling to get them both to 0. The latency will affect idle more because of the lower injector pulsewidth at ilde than at cruise.
Also, do you have the breather hose connected from the valve cover to the turbo intake pipe? If not, this will cause very positive idle trims and even cruise trims. If you don't have that hose hooked up, that can be one of the main causes of your problem. If you try to properly tune injectors without it, you will run into many problems, very similar to this.
Eric
Last edited by l2r99gst; Oct 27, 2007 at 09:30 AM.
Oct 27, 2007, 11:16 AM
#14
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I read in your post of the breather line last night in the thread that was linked. Black and tucked away I had all but forgotten about it during the install. The HAFE intake does not have any ports for it on it. So this has to be something that just slipped the radar. I will install a nipple in the intake pipe, and connect it and see if it doesn't remedy the situation.
It is likely that it will. (Or in other words)
D'oh!
I am sure you are used to this by now, but...
l2r99gst, you
It is likely that it will. (Or in other words)
D'oh!
I am sure you are used to this by now, but...
l2r99gst, you
