Let's see your fully tuned timing maps
Jan 29, 2013, 09:08 PM
#2071
My two cents:
This thread has 138 pages. There is like 20 maps that looks good, run good, no knock, and have a good construction. They're mixed into 200 not so good maps with knock, other issues, odd tricks.
I know merlin's/TB guide has some maps but it wouldn't hurt if we had a bigger database with different mods/cars/setup. It would really help new DIY tuners to have a thread with good rated maps (I would have been happy to have that).
This thread has 138 pages. There is like 20 maps that looks good, run good, no knock, and have a good construction. They're mixed into 200 not so good maps with knock, other issues, odd tricks.
I know merlin's/TB guide has some maps but it wouldn't hurt if we had a bigger database with different mods/cars/setup. It would really help new DIY tuners to have a thread with good rated maps (I would have been happy to have that).
Jan 30, 2013, 12:17 AM
#2072
Evolving Member
My two cents:
This thread has 138 pages. There is like 20 maps that looks good, run good, no knock, and have a good construction. They're mixed into 200 not so good maps with knock, other issues, odd tricks.
I know merlin's/TB guide has some maps but it wouldn't hurt if we had a bigger database with different mods/cars/setup. It would really help new DIY tuners to have a thread with good rated maps (I would have been happy to have that).
This thread has 138 pages. There is like 20 maps that looks good, run good, no knock, and have a good construction. They're mixed into 200 not so good maps with knock, other issues, odd tricks.
I know merlin's/TB guide has some maps but it wouldn't hurt if we had a bigger database with different mods/cars/setup. It would really help new DIY tuners to have a thread with good rated maps (I would have been happy to have that).
Every car is different, even if you have the same mods and paint job. You, as a DIY tuner, have to figure out what your current setup likes. To do that, you tune your ignition timing by a method stated before of minimum timing best torque (MTBT.) You really shouldn't tune until knock is occurred and then retard it a degree.
Jan 30, 2013, 12:38 AM
#2073
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My two cents:
This thread has 138 pages. There is like 20 maps that looks good, run good, no knock, and have a good construction. They're mixed into 200 not so good maps with knock, other issues, odd tricks.
I know merlin's/TB guide has some maps but it wouldn't hurt if we had a bigger database with different mods/cars/setup. It would really help new DIY tuners to have a thread with good rated maps (I would have been happy to have that).
This thread has 138 pages. There is like 20 maps that looks good, run good, no knock, and have a good construction. They're mixed into 200 not so good maps with knock, other issues, odd tricks.
I know merlin's/TB guide has some maps but it wouldn't hurt if we had a bigger database with different mods/cars/setup. It would really help new DIY tuners to have a thread with good rated maps (I would have been happy to have that).
Jan 30, 2013, 04:47 AM
#2074
I'm going to make this a simple, yet sophisticated short post.
Every car is different, even if you have the same mods and paint job. You, as a DIY tuner, have to figure out what your current setup likes. To do that, you tune your ignition timing by a method stated before of minimum timing best torque (MTBT.) You really shouldn't tune until knock is occurred and then retard it a degree.
Every car is different, even if you have the same mods and paint job. You, as a DIY tuner, have to figure out what your current setup likes. To do that, you tune your ignition timing by a method stated before of minimum timing best torque (MTBT.) You really shouldn't tune until knock is occurred and then retard it a degree.
There is, as you probably already know, some good tricks to follow(most of the time) when tuning timing:
- rpm+/timing+, load+/timing-
- slow timing drop at spool up (max 3* per 10 load)
- shift knock reduced by dropping timing at high rpm, mid load.
- take advantage of the boost drop with more timing
- no drastic changes in timing everywhere in the map
- 91 octane cannot run Xtiming up top at Xpsi. 93 octane maybe. (all these octane rules of thumb)
- etc.
Argue with that or not, it would be very good to merge good rated maps with setup listed. I knew when submiting that idea that there would be some tuners that would not agree with that. The same people would have been happy to have a "good maps merge" when they were new about tuning. If you don't need it, don't consult it.
Last edited by domyz; Jan 30, 2013 at 05:43 AM.
Jan 30, 2013, 05:33 AM
#2075
Evolving Member
I'm not saying we need a "copy this map" thread. I saw posted maps with 5* at 100load to fight tip-in knock, some have 8* at peak torque while having 10* up top, some have 20* at 140 load and 10* at 160. I wouldn't say that it's because their car "is different". I know that old statement: every car is different. Yes at some place you run 15* and the other can run 13*, but still the map is looking the same overall, plus it follows the same tricks/rules of thumb for tuning.
There is, as you probably already know, some good tricks to follow(most of the time) when tuning timing:
Argue with that or not, it would be very good to merge good rated maps with setup listed. I knew when submiting that idea that there would be some tuners that would not agree with that. The same people would have been happy to have a "good maps merge" when they were new about tuning. If you don't need it, don't consult it.
There is, as you probably already know, some good tricks to follow(most of the time) when tuning timing:
- rpm+/timing+, load+timing-
- slow timing drop at spool up (max 3* per 10 load)
- shift knock reduced by dropping timing at high rpm, mid load.
- take advantage of the boost drop with more timing
- no drastic changes in timing everywhere in the map
- 91 octane cannot run Xtiming up top at Xpsi. 93 octane maybe. (all these octane rules of thumb)
- etc.
Argue with that or not, it would be very good to merge good rated maps with setup listed. I knew when submiting that idea that there would be some tuners that would not agree with that. The same people would have been happy to have a "good maps merge" when they were new about tuning. If you don't need it, don't consult it.
Jan 30, 2013, 05:52 AM
#2076
for starters people could already copy and paste the maps that are here if they wanted to. But, its honestly more helpful for the people wanting to learn if the look at good maps not gibberish. and yes i know no car is the same... blah blah blah.. the object isnt to copy a map directly, its to help diy tuners to learn. and even if they have a cobbled up map, and they copy/paste a map. from some ive seen it can only help them.
Jan 30, 2013, 02:12 PM
#2078
Domyz, I think this should be the next project after the tephra guide is finished. I like the idea of good examples with build list, but it should also contain the afr curve run as well since it does have an affect on timing.
Btw, need anymore help on that tephra guide? I haven't check the status of it in a while.
Btw, need anymore help on that tephra guide? I haven't check the status of it in a while.
Jan 30, 2013, 02:43 PM
#2079
Domyz, I think this should be the next project after the tephra guide is finished. I like the idea of good examples with build list, but it should also contain the afr curve run as well since it does have an affect on timing.
Btw, need anymore help on that tephra guide? I haven't check the status of it in a while.
Btw, need anymore help on that tephra guide? I haven't check the status of it in a while.
For the tephra conversion guide, some minor things to do and it will be ready soon. I didn't take much time to work on it this month. I think with my tephra options part and raptord's boost part it will be complete, but thanks for your help. I'll contact you about the next project
Jan 31, 2013, 02:11 AM
#2080
I'm not saying we need a "copy this map" thread. I saw posted maps with 5* at 100load to fight tip-in knock, some have 8* at peak torque while having 10* up top, some have 20* at 140 load and 10* at 160. I wouldn't say that it's because their car "is different". I know that old statement: every car is different. Yes at some place you run 15* and the other can run 13*, but still the map is looking the same overall, plus it follows the same tricks/rules of thumb for tuning.
There is, as you probably already know, some good tricks to follow(most of the time) when tuning timing:
Argue with that or not, it would be very good to merge good rated maps with setup listed. I knew when submiting that idea that there would be some tuners that would not agree with that. The same people would have been happy to have a "good maps merge" when they were new about tuning. If you don't need it, don't consult it.
There is, as you probably already know, some good tricks to follow(most of the time) when tuning timing:
- rpm+/timing+, load+/timing-
- slow timing drop at spool up (max 3* per 10 load)
- shift knock reduced by dropping timing at high rpm, mid load.
- take advantage of the boost drop with more timing
- no drastic changes in timing everywhere in the map
- 91 octane cannot run Xtiming up top at Xpsi. 93 octane maybe. (all these octane rules of thumb)
- etc.
Argue with that or not, it would be very good to merge good rated maps with setup listed. I knew when submiting that idea that there would be some tuners that would not agree with that. The same people would have been happy to have a "good maps merge" when they were new about tuning. If you don't need it, don't consult it.
Or that is right to decrease timing when you run more boost?
Jan 31, 2013, 03:26 AM
#2081
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at the first glance I thought he meant to fight boost drop with increasing timing
but probably he meant that when the boost drops you can add more timing up top
but probably he meant that when the boost drops you can add more timing up top
Feb 1, 2013, 08:44 PM
#2083
Let's see if I can give an example without opening a can of worms on afr in this.
My car as it sits is pretty basic. 3"dp-back exhaust, open element filter with maf adapter, 3-port.... that's it. On the stock ebcs I could run 13* @ 7k with an 11:2 afr. Boost was roughly 19-20psi or in the 200-210 load column.
Now, the more boost you push, the more heat you create, especially on a stock i/c. At the same afr, now (3-port) holding 21psi or 233 load at 7K I can only run 9*. Not only that but I am holding 23psi a lot longer than before.
So, just as domyz stated, you can fight taper with leaner afr, but only to a point...... dependant on the charge pressure and temperature, which depends on how effecient your system is at dissipating heat.
Hope that helps some.
My car as it sits is pretty basic. 3"dp-back exhaust, open element filter with maf adapter, 3-port.... that's it. On the stock ebcs I could run 13* @ 7k with an 11:2 afr. Boost was roughly 19-20psi or in the 200-210 load column.
Now, the more boost you push, the more heat you create, especially on a stock i/c. At the same afr, now (3-port) holding 21psi or 233 load at 7K I can only run 9*. Not only that but I am holding 23psi a lot longer than before.
So, just as domyz stated, you can fight taper with leaner afr, but only to a point...... dependant on the charge pressure and temperature, which depends on how effecient your system is at dissipating heat.
Hope that helps some.
Feb 2, 2013, 01:00 PM
#2084
Evolving Member
Here's what I got to deal with. This is a e85 tune from a shop here local that was "detuned." Peak torque is the highlighted cell. This is one of my friends' cars that he's now having me tune. Way too much timing all around for stock I/C and piping, TBE and AEM intake.
Feb 2, 2013, 03:44 PM
#2085
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Here's what I got to deal with. This is a e85 tune from a shop here local that was "detuned." Peak torque is the highlighted cell. This is one of my friends' cars that he's now having me tune. Way too much timing all around for stock I/C and piping, TBE and AEM intake.