Let's see your fully tuned timing maps
Dec 29, 2010, 12:22 AM
#752
thats no where near enough timing at peak load. your timing changes are far too drastic. Knock isn't the only thing you should be looking at when finding the right timing to hit.
Dec 29, 2010, 02:45 AM
#755
AFR and boost play a big roll in whats max brake torque and whats not. you cant just say "OH thats not enough timing at peak load" without actually experiencing the car yourself.
Dec 29, 2010, 04:49 AM
#756
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Also that was a stupid thing to say. The cars on e85, and you have no idea what it wants. some cars dont want more then 0* at peak, some dont want more then 1* .. etc.
AFR and boost play a big roll in whats max brake torque and whats not. you cant just say "OH thats not enough timing at peak load" without actually experiencing the car yourself.
AFR and boost play a big roll in whats max brake torque and whats not. you cant just say "OH thats not enough timing at peak load" without actually experiencing the car yourself.
Dec 29, 2010, 09:14 AM
#759
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All home grown ppl, so go easy. This is for an FP black, stock motor, 50/50 Meth and Cosworth M2. Car makes 400tq before 4,750rpms and peaks over 500whp (VRD Dynojet). Constructive comments are welcomed. (and I know ppl are going to comment about the big blocks of 9 - 6 degrees, but the car cuts across them SOOO quickly). It's not done, but it's close. It still has a few counts of knock under certain conditions. It's also knocks occasionally (4 or 5 counts) under 4,000 rpms at light throttle/ high way conditions, not sure what that's all about :-/)
And while i have your attention, can someone please tell me which load value is best to use? 2byte, load calc, or Load1B???? None of them seem to be spot on
And while i have your attention, can someone please tell me which load value is best to use? 2byte, load calc, or Load1B???? None of them seem to be spot on
Last edited by Carloverx; Dec 29, 2010 at 09:18 AM.
Dec 29, 2010, 09:23 AM
#760
From 5500 rpm and on, your timing goes down then back up as you go across the load range. Any specific reason for that? Timing should only be going down as load increases, not down then back up.
If you're doing that for the 2-step, you should be using launch maps instead so that you don't affect your regular timing map.
If you're doing that for the 2-step, you should be using launch maps instead so that you don't affect your regular timing map.
Dec 29, 2010, 09:53 AM
#761
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From 5500 rpm and on, your timing goes down then back up as you go across the load range. Any specific reason for that? Timing should only be going down as load increases, not down then back up.
If you're doing that for the 2-step, you should be using launch maps instead so that you don't affect your regular timing map.
If you're doing that for the 2-step, you should be using launch maps instead so that you don't affect your regular timing map.
But going WOT at 5500 or 3500, loads seems to meet up and follow the same path. SO, the car can handle 8 degrees beyond 6000 rpms at loads >300 regardless if I got there by jumping on it at 5500 or 3500, but it can't handle >8 degrees before that mark regardless of what RPM I start at.
In other words, if i go WOT at 3500 or 5500 load will still be at 300, at 6000rpms.
If i made those blocks 8 or 9, so timing only decreases, It will knock going WOT at 5500 rpm.
It may have something to do with the meth and injector duty cycles, or I may just be out of my mind lol.
I'm not sure that makes any sense let alone if i explained it clearly. Someone let me know.
Last edited by Carloverx; Dec 29, 2010 at 10:00 AM.
Dec 29, 2010, 11:18 AM
#762
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According to what I have read, 2 byte load will be the most accurate...however it is known to have weird load spikes from time to time. 1-byte load is the most consistent.
Dec 29, 2010, 11:33 PM
#763
okay well once again here is my timing table
this is the timing table change that i made to make it not such a big jump in timing between RPMs as some have recommended. everything takes place in the last two load columns once i hit peak load of 328-337
the BLUE is mine and the RED are the changes.
both of these are back to back on the same road i always do my runs on going the same direction. i did the RED first. note that the RED had 2 counts of knock at 5700 RPMs. the other run was 0 counts of knock.
now how could i make the original timing table better without sacrificing power?
this is the timing table change that i made to make it not such a big jump in timing between RPMs as some have recommended. everything takes place in the last two load columns once i hit peak load of 328-337
the BLUE is mine and the RED are the changes.
both of these are back to back on the same road i always do my runs on going the same direction. i did the RED first. note that the RED had 2 counts of knock at 5700 RPMs. the other run was 0 counts of knock.
now how could i make the original timing table better without sacrificing power?
Dec 30, 2010, 12:14 AM
#764
You need Tephra maps so you can tune with launch control maps. What rpm is your LC set at? For your sized turbo i'd say no less then 6500 should be your target. Also e85 is going to need more timing retard to light up some boost, also make sure to drop your target AFR considerably. I prefer ignition retard or cut and not fuel cut.
You have some huge timing jumps in there. Smooth it out some more for sure. Anything more then 3-4* of timing jumps the car isn't going to like that much.
Some other advice which is really important to remember is that you can't tune e85 by knock. You need to verify MBT (minimum best timing) by advancing timing by 1-2* at a time and backing it up with at least 1 or 2 WOT pulls to see if power increased or not. If your not seeing 5whp or more gains with each degree your getting close or there. Back it down a degree or leave it there depending on how much you gained. When your past MBT you will no longer pickup any power at all.
Rescale your maps to suit your rpm and loads. Also allow a little extra for load incase you overshoot. I like to do 20 over my max logged load, more won't hurt. I also never start the scale at 0 for load or RPM. Usually do my mine RPM a tad under target idle and my load at where I idle at.
Also a rule of thumb. Timing increases as rpms increase and it decreases as your load increases.
You have some huge timing jumps in there. Smooth it out some more for sure. Anything more then 3-4* of timing jumps the car isn't going to like that much.
Some other advice which is really important to remember is that you can't tune e85 by knock. You need to verify MBT (minimum best timing) by advancing timing by 1-2* at a time and backing it up with at least 1 or 2 WOT pulls to see if power increased or not. If your not seeing 5whp or more gains with each degree your getting close or there. Back it down a degree or leave it there depending on how much you gained. When your past MBT you will no longer pickup any power at all.
Rescale your maps to suit your rpm and loads. Also allow a little extra for load incase you overshoot. I like to do 20 over my max logged load, more won't hurt. I also never start the scale at 0 for load or RPM. Usually do my mine RPM a tad under target idle and my load at where I idle at.
Also a rule of thumb. Timing increases as rpms increase and it decreases as your load increases.