Looking for more maps, 80700010 Def
Aug 29, 2008, 01:24 AM
#181
Evolving Member
Ive transferred all your released work to my Rom ID. My car will be running again after the tranny work tomorrow, so I will be able to double check your work.
Your multiple gear based afr/timing/boost maps are all correct, as I was running these maps this way for a number of months.
Here are a few graphs on how the Invecs II works on a 4 speed auto. There are maps which correspond directly to these- and a whole lot and I mean LOT on the fuzzy logic control.
Unlike other auto gearbox ecus (subaru) the lockup changes depending on TPS and RPM. On these simple ecus, they normally have a standard lockup RPM which applies to all gears or if not the RPM lockup doesnt change.
The damper contol graphs show when the lockup happens in each gear. These are PWM solenoids, so the maps will show duty cycle. The duty is adjusted for comfort on shifts and lockup.
Driving at constant speed at 60 kph in 3rd gear = 70%-99.6% duty
Driving at 60kph in 3rd gear then accelerating = 70%-99.6% changing to 0%
so 0% duty equals locked up
99.6% (100%) equals un-locked
So these maps are based of throttle voltage and rpm
Your multiple gear based afr/timing/boost maps are all correct, as I was running these maps this way for a number of months.
Here are a few graphs on how the Invecs II works on a 4 speed auto. There are maps which correspond directly to these- and a whole lot and I mean LOT on the fuzzy logic control.
Unlike other auto gearbox ecus (subaru) the lockup changes depending on TPS and RPM. On these simple ecus, they normally have a standard lockup RPM which applies to all gears or if not the RPM lockup doesnt change.
The damper contol graphs show when the lockup happens in each gear. These are PWM solenoids, so the maps will show duty cycle. The duty is adjusted for comfort on shifts and lockup.
Driving at constant speed at 60 kph in 3rd gear = 70%-99.6% duty
Driving at 60kph in 3rd gear then accelerating = 70%-99.6% changing to 0%
so 0% duty equals locked up
99.6% (100%) equals un-locked
So these maps are based of throttle voltage and rpm
Last edited by monsta; Aug 29, 2008 at 01:41 AM.
Cheers
Aug 29, 2008, 03:25 AM
#183
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The GT-A is a 5-speed, but yeah it should be fairly similar.
So you are confident that 0% would lockup the TC (rpm increase = road speed increase) and 100% duty Unlocks it (allows slip)? Are you sure the Damper Clutch is the TC Lockup Clutch? It seems backwards, but at least you have given me some insight. I have always assumed it was an On-Off switch condition and never thought about it being duty based! That's good, at least now I can do some hunting on the duty based maps I have to work with.
I already found it is TPS based but from all of my testing it seems to be a fairly constant TPS voltage. The voltage is also based on an offset from what the ECU learns is closed throttle. I found this because moving the sensor and allowing the system to re-learn also meant the TC lockup reverted back to its previous point. So finding a map based on TPS is a little difficult unless base closed throttle TPS voltage is measured first and then the maps checked against known logging. Something I have been searching for every chance I get.
Thanks again.
Editted- I forget to add the conditions I have experienced. My lockup disengages at ~0.9V above base TPS no matter what gear I am in or the RPM I have tested at. It also locks up on decel from what I can tell. I might track down the ECU pin for the TC lockup and then scope the output to see exactly what is going on.
So you are confident that 0% would lockup the TC (rpm increase = road speed increase) and 100% duty Unlocks it (allows slip)? Are you sure the Damper Clutch is the TC Lockup Clutch? It seems backwards, but at least you have given me some insight. I have always assumed it was an On-Off switch condition and never thought about it being duty based! That's good, at least now I can do some hunting on the duty based maps I have to work with.
I already found it is TPS based but from all of my testing it seems to be a fairly constant TPS voltage. The voltage is also based on an offset from what the ECU learns is closed throttle. I found this because moving the sensor and allowing the system to re-learn also meant the TC lockup reverted back to its previous point. So finding a map based on TPS is a little difficult unless base closed throttle TPS voltage is measured first and then the maps checked against known logging. Something I have been searching for every chance I get.
Thanks again.
Editted- I forget to add the conditions I have experienced. My lockup disengages at ~0.9V above base TPS no matter what gear I am in or the RPM I have tested at. It also locks up on decel from what I can tell. I might track down the ECU pin for the TC lockup and then scope the output to see exactly what is going on.
Last edited by Mattjin; Aug 29, 2008 at 03:28 AM. Reason: more info
Aug 30, 2008, 05:07 AM
#185
Evolving Member
The GT-A is a 5-speed, but yeah it should be fairly similar.
So you are confident that 0% would lockup the TC (rpm increase = road speed increase) and 100% duty Unlocks it (allows slip)? Are you sure the Damper Clutch is the TC Lockup Clutch? It seems backwards, but at least you have given me some insight. I have always assumed it was an On-Off switch condition and never thought about it being duty based! That's good, at least now I can do some hunting on the duty based maps I have to work with.
I already found it is TPS based but from all of my testing it seems to be a fairly constant TPS voltage. The voltage is also based on an offset from what the ECU learns is closed throttle. I found this because moving the sensor and allowing the system to re-learn also meant the TC lockup reverted back to its previous point. So finding a map based on TPS is a little difficult unless base closed throttle TPS voltage is measured first and then the maps checked against known logging. Something I have been searching for every chance I get.
Thanks again.
Editted- I forget to add the conditions I have experienced. My lockup disengages at ~0.9V above base TPS no matter what gear I am in or the RPM I have tested at. It also locks up on decel from what I can tell. I might track down the ECU pin for the TC lockup and then scope the output to see exactly what is going on.
So you are confident that 0% would lockup the TC (rpm increase = road speed increase) and 100% duty Unlocks it (allows slip)? Are you sure the Damper Clutch is the TC Lockup Clutch? It seems backwards, but at least you have given me some insight. I have always assumed it was an On-Off switch condition and never thought about it being duty based! That's good, at least now I can do some hunting on the duty based maps I have to work with.
I already found it is TPS based but from all of my testing it seems to be a fairly constant TPS voltage. The voltage is also based on an offset from what the ECU learns is closed throttle. I found this because moving the sensor and allowing the system to re-learn also meant the TC lockup reverted back to its previous point. So finding a map based on TPS is a little difficult unless base closed throttle TPS voltage is measured first and then the maps checked against known logging. Something I have been searching for every chance I get.
Thanks again.
Editted- I forget to add the conditions I have experienced. My lockup disengages at ~0.9V above base TPS no matter what gear I am in or the RPM I have tested at. It also locks up on decel from what I can tell. I might track down the ECU pin for the TC lockup and then scope the output to see exactly what is going on.
The info on what % duty cycle for the TC solenoid is from the Service manual for a NA Airtrek. It lists normal conditions etc.
The damper clutch (DCC solenoid) is incorporated in the torque converter
I also thought that 100% duty meant lock-up, but Im not entirely sure on EXACTLY how the tranny does it thing.
Mut data list:
31 LR solenoid valve
duty ratio
Driving at a constant speed of 10 km/h in 1st 0 %
Driving at a constant speed of 20 km/h in 2nd 100 %
Driving at a constant speed of 30 km/h in 3rd 100 %
Driving at a constant speed of 50 km/h in 4th 100 %
32 UD solenoid valve
duty ratio
Driving at a constant speed of 10 km/h in 1st 0 %
Driving at a constant speed of 20 km/h in 2nd 0 %
Driving at a constant speed of 30 km/h in 3rd 0 %
Driving at a constant speed of 50 km/h in 4th 100 %
33 2ND solenoid valve
duty ratio
Driving at a constant speed of 10 km/h in 1st 100 %
Driving at a constant speed of 20 km/h in 2nd 0 %
Driving at a constant speed of 30 km/h in 3rd 100 %
Driving at a constant speed of 50 km/h in 4th 0 %
34 OD solenoid valve
duty ratio
Driving at a constant speed of 10 km/h in 1st 100 %
Driving at a constant speed of 20 km/h in 2nd 100 %
Driving at a constant speed of 30 km/h in 3rd 0 %
Driving at a constant speed of 50 km/h in 4th 0 %
36 DCC solenoid valve
duty ratio
Driving at a constant speed 60 km/h in 3rd gear 70 − 99.6 %
Driving at 60 km/h in 3rd gear, then fully close
the accelerator pedal
70 − 99.6 % to 0
Looking through your Rom and mine, Ive found many more maps for the tranny control in mine compared to yours and the earlier model Airtreks. I gather that the control continued to be refined in later model INVECS II cars.
I have also used Evo 9 GTA wagon rom and this a even more maps tranny maps than my stock ROM.
Much of these are for the fuzzy logic parameters for auto mode. I feel that the tiptronic maps are similar regardless of age of rom.
If we were able to log the duty of the solenoid and log, we would be able to see when and how solenoid reacts.
Sep 1, 2008, 04:40 AM
#186
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Have a small update regarding the two EGR Duty maps (previously Knock Filters 2 and 3). Through logging it is proving more apparent that the first map is used for Neutral only, and the 2nd map is used for In Gear. I thought it was for N,1,2 and the other for 3,4,5 but some testing today showed it not to be the case.
Sep 2, 2008, 01:00 AM
#187
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Some more map discovery today. Knock Filters 7 and 8 are Purge Control Duty maps for 5Hz and 10Hz respectively. 9 and 10 are definitely linked too, I just need to see exactly how they effect the evap emissions system.
Also, found the Limp Home Fuel map. If the MAF fails this map is used for fuel control.
For 80700010:
<table name="Limp Home - TPS Table" category="Fuel" address="3b8b" type="3D" level="2" swapxy="true" scaling="uint8">
<table name="TPS" address="5c40" type="X Axis" elements="7" scaling="Volts16"/>
<table name="RPM" address="5c2c" type="Y Axis" elements="5" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>
Also, found the Limp Home Fuel map. If the MAF fails this map is used for fuel control.
For 80700010:
<table name="Limp Home - TPS Table" category="Fuel" address="3b8b" type="3D" level="2" swapxy="true" scaling="uint8">
<table name="TPS" address="5c40" type="X Axis" elements="7" scaling="Volts16"/>
<table name="RPM" address="5c2c" type="Y Axis" elements="5" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>
Sep 2, 2008, 05:13 AM
#188
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Hi Mattjin & monsta,
I have been Following the thread for quite sometime. I am shower with joy, that you guys have done so much for Airtrek & GTA. Mattjin, i can do testing on 83540008. and Also i have the full workshop manual for airtrek it include all technical data, step to diagnosis on problems. However, i can't post it here it quite a big file. If you guys insterested, may be we can upload to your ftp or post it up somewhere where i can upload it to or mail it to you in cd format.
As for the testing for 83540008, if possible you guys can post the xml to me.
Once again, thanks for the effort you guys have put in. Its really an excellence work you guys have done. Keep it up.
I have been Following the thread for quite sometime. I am shower with joy, that you guys have done so much for Airtrek & GTA. Mattjin, i can do testing on 83540008. and Also i have the full workshop manual for airtrek it include all technical data, step to diagnosis on problems. However, i can't post it here it quite a big file. If you guys insterested, may be we can upload to your ftp or post it up somewhere where i can upload it to or mail it to you in cd format.
As for the testing for 83540008, if possible you guys can post the xml to me.
Once again, thanks for the effort you guys have put in. Its really an excellence work you guys have done. Keep it up.
Sep 2, 2008, 07:24 AM
#189
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Some more map discovery today. Knock Filters 7 and 8 are Purge Control Duty maps for 5Hz and 10Hz respectively. 9 and 10 are definitely linked too, I just need to see exactly how they effect the evap emissions system.
Also, found the Limp Home Fuel map. If the MAF fails this map is used for fuel control.
For 80700010:
<table name="Limp Home - TPS Table" category="Fuel" address="3b8b" type="3D" level="2" swapxy="true" scaling="uint8">
<table name="TPS" address="5c40" type="X Axis" elements="7" scaling="Volts16"/>
<table name="RPM" address="5c2c" type="Y Axis" elements="5" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>
Also, found the Limp Home Fuel map. If the MAF fails this map is used for fuel control.
For 80700010:
<table name="Limp Home - TPS Table" category="Fuel" address="3b8b" type="3D" level="2" swapxy="true" scaling="uint8">
<table name="TPS" address="5c40" type="X Axis" elements="7" scaling="Volts16"/>
<table name="RPM" address="5c2c" type="Y Axis" elements="5" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>
Sep 2, 2008, 03:26 PM
#190
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Yeah, what does the Knock Filter 1 really do? It looks like a x-TPS vs y-Load map but I was planning on attacking it today to find out. I found how to log it from the MUT table the other day, but today is its scheduled test day (time permitting).
What other 3D tables do you have?
What other 3D tables do you have?
Sep 2, 2008, 05:14 PM
#191
Evolving Member
Hi Mattjin & monsta,
I have been Following the thread for quite sometime. I am shower with joy, that you guys have done so much for Airtrek & GTA. Mattjin, i can do testing on 83540008. and Also i have the full workshop manual for airtrek it include all technical data, step to diagnosis on problems. However, i can't post it here it quite a big file. If you guys insterested, may be we can upload to your ftp or post it up somewhere where i can upload it to or mail it to you in cd format.
As for the testing for 83540008, if possible you guys can post the xml to me.
Once again, thanks for the effort you guys have put in. Its really an excellence work you guys have done. Keep it up.
I have been Following the thread for quite sometime. I am shower with joy, that you guys have done so much for Airtrek & GTA. Mattjin, i can do testing on 83540008. and Also i have the full workshop manual for airtrek it include all technical data, step to diagnosis on problems. However, i can't post it here it quite a big file. If you guys insterested, may be we can upload to your ftp or post it up somewhere where i can upload it to or mail it to you in cd format.
As for the testing for 83540008, if possible you guys can post the xml to me.
Once again, thanks for the effort you guys have put in. Its really an excellence work you guys have done. Keep it up.
Hi there,
Does the service manual include the Turbo. The only one that ive been able to find is just for the 2.0 and 2.4 N/A models.
Ive have seen a Turbo service manual in Japanese though
Pm me if you need
Cheers
Aaron
Sep 3, 2008, 02:47 AM
#192
Evolving Member
Hi Mattjin & monsta,
I have been Following the thread for quite sometime. I am shower with joy, that you guys have done so much for Airtrek & GTA. Mattjin, i can do testing on 83540008. and Also i have the full workshop manual for airtrek it include all technical data, step to diagnosis on problems. However, i can't post it here it quite a big file. If you guys insterested, may be we can upload to your ftp or post it up somewhere where i can upload it to or mail it to you in cd format.
As for the testing for 83540008, if possible you guys can post the xml to me.
Once again, thanks for the effort you guys have put in. Its really an excellence work you guys have done. Keep it up.
I have been Following the thread for quite sometime. I am shower with joy, that you guys have done so much for Airtrek & GTA. Mattjin, i can do testing on 83540008. and Also i have the full workshop manual for airtrek it include all technical data, step to diagnosis on problems. However, i can't post it here it quite a big file. If you guys insterested, may be we can upload to your ftp or post it up somewhere where i can upload it to or mail it to you in cd format.
As for the testing for 83540008, if possible you guys can post the xml to me.
Once again, thanks for the effort you guys have put in. Its really an excellence work you guys have done. Keep it up.
Sep 3, 2008, 08:08 AM
#193
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Airtrek Manual
Hi there,
the file size for the manual is est. 100+MB. It would be impossible to upload it to the forum. If you have ftp site...maybe i can upload it there. Otherwise, PM me with your Address i'll send the CD to you.
Cheers.....Beers for everyone that have done massive work for us Mitsubishi Enthusiat.
Ken
the file size for the manual is est. 100+MB. It would be impossible to upload it to the forum. If you have ftp site...maybe i can upload it there. Otherwise, PM me with your Address i'll send the CD to you.
Cheers.....Beers for everyone that have done massive work for us Mitsubishi Enthusiat.
Ken
Sep 6, 2008, 06:35 AM
#195
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A compiled definition file for 83540008. Has almost all of the maps currently found that are of any use to most people. Enjoy and give some feedback.