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thinking about ditching my LC1

 
Old Jul 18, 2008, 07:41 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by dan l View Post
KevinD,

Most gasoline run 10% ethanol in this day and age. If your wideband is calibrated for gasoline they typically idle at 14.2-14.5AFR due to the ethanol in the gas. That is something to think about in the future.
You should still idle at 14.7. The wideband is measuring lambda and simply multiplying the correction factor (14.7 for gasoline). It doesn't matter if you have pure gasoline, 10% ethanol, 20% ethanol, etc. You are still going to be ilding at stoich, or 1.0 lambda, which on a gasoline wideband is 14.7:1.


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Old Jul 18, 2008, 08:20 AM
  #17  
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hrmm whats the problem with the ZT2 and analogue output accuracy?
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Old Jul 18, 2008, 08:34 AM
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check out the logging wideband AFR with stock ECU thread. THere was some talk about what scale to use and then zeitronix said that their kits are more accurate to log with serial than to log with analog (I think due to grounding variations)
I think someone also logged both at the same time and found it to be off by .2 or .3 I think.
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Old Jul 18, 2008, 08:53 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by tephra View Post
my problems:
- loosing calibration
- having to recalibrate it
- fking annoying wiring
-It should never lose calibration if it's wired up nicely.
-You can calibrate it without removing it from the bung
-Annoying wiring? I guess that is a subjective thing.

Plus I like how you can program the output on the LC1. You can get even finer AFR resolution. Not sure if Xeitronix can do that.
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Old Jul 18, 2008, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by dudical26 View Post
The main reason I was thinking of getting rid of it is due to logging wideband AFR directly in the ECU. In that thread zietronix mentions that there analog output is not as accurate as serial logging.
Digital serial stream is preferable since it outputs actual number not a voltage, which needs to be further processed. When you start measuring analog voltages you are dealing with ground offsets, A/D conversion errors, noise etc. This applies to all measurements not just wideband AFR meters. Use a digital output if available. If you have no other choice then log analog signals.
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Old Jul 18, 2008, 10:43 AM
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I have only used ZT-2 so I can't really compare it to anything else, but i can tell you why i like it.

-Love the screen.
-Narrowband output seems to be the easiest of them all as far as i can tell from reading stuff around here. You just select the AFR you want from the drop down list. No dicking around with voltages.
-Warning light and sound for overboost, lean mix, overrev.
-No calibration, which is nice, provided it stays accurate of course

It also has a MAP sensor for those who don't have a stock 3 bar MAP sensor (like JDM one) and EGT sensor if you're into logging that kind of thing.
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Old Jul 18, 2008, 12:56 PM
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on second thought, I think I will keep my ZT2.....why fix something if it aint broken.

Plus now that I don't need to use the ZAVT for compex warnings like leaning out at high boost and RPM's, etc.... I can use it as a shift light/buzzer (nice)
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Old Jul 18, 2008, 01:20 PM
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Also maybe it's just me, but when it comes to WB accuracy, so long as it's within 0.2-0.3 I don't think it even matters. I don't tune for a number. I tune for what my car likes and for where it makes power. So if i end up tuning for 11.7 and it's maybe technically 11.5 with a more precise WB - it wouldn't make an iota of difference in my tuning.
Not to mention i tune for E85 where not only blends change constantly, there's even ambiguity as to what the stoch ratio of Ethanol is.

I hope what i'm saying makes sense I'm sure purists will think it's preposterous But they are filed under "Tuning Elitists" in my book, so it doesn't matter j/k j/k

Last edited by mplspilot; Jul 18, 2008 at 01:23 PM.
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Old Jul 18, 2008, 01:55 PM
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My ZTX matches our innovate wideband on our dyno at WOT, of course at cruise and idle the innovate is a little off my ZTX because the innovate is in the tailpipe.

I've never ever had any issues with ZTX, installed them in a bunch of cars with no issues either. Works perfect every time without fuss.

I've done a couple innovate installs and used a couple innovates and every single time they have been a royal pita to set-up and get working correctly.
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Old Jul 18, 2008, 06:46 PM
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I have had an LM-1 since before I had an Evo. It is permanently installed in my car with two XD-1 gauges. One gauge reads AFR and the other reads boost. They have been perfect. I have had zero problems with them.

I have another LM-1 kit for tuning Evos. Again, zero problems.

The thing I love about the LM-1 are the error codes it gives you. Rather than continue to spew AFR numbers, the LM-1 will give you an error code when the AFR numbers are off.

I was tuning a car that kept popping the the Throttle hose. I kept putting it back on and then it will pop. It popped like five times. Finally, the LM-1 gave me an Error 8 code, sensor too rich. It made sense because when the hose pops the car runs rich as hell. I performed a sensor calibration in free air and the sensor came back to life. Calibration is the second feature I like with the LM-1.

The error codes are really helpful. They tell you if the sensor is performing properly or not.

A lot of people get problems with the LC-1. But a lot of people have zero problems with them. I think the key is to install the unit properly because it is VERY sensitive to grounding offsets.
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Old Jul 18, 2008, 07:12 PM
  #26  
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Why not just try the ZT2, if you like it just keep using it.
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Old Jul 18, 2008, 09:01 PM
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I know this thread is about the LC1, but I have had my LM1 prolly since it came out. Use to beat on it, broke the analog jack, lost the 9 volt battery cover, lens slightly cracked. Last year as it turned 5 years old it stopped working correctly and started giving me heater errors so I RMAed it to Innovate, and no questions asked all I paid was shipping there and everything that I broke was fixed. I thought I had a new wideband. Once again it works like a champ. You cant beat that kind of service.
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Old Jul 18, 2008, 09:28 PM
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LC1 units are plagued. I wouldn't touch a Innovative wideband from the issues people seem to have with them. I like simple.

ZEITRONIX.
Install = Mickey mouse
reading displays = Day care easy
Failsafe option is easy and works.

Failsafe is not just for meth users specifically, it can be used for different applications and settings. For example, you hit a certain threshold it will give the audible signal + trigger a device e.g mac valve to cut boost to wastegate pressure and/or trigger the map switching.

I hear quite a few people ditching the ZAVT based on Tephras map switching, however, i rather have as much protection as possible; passed the ecu. I want the ZAVT to take over if the fuel pump dies, or no injector at WOT(or something along those lines)

Bottom line, if the LC1 wasn't so plagued I would say give it another shot. But it is time for you to make the transition. I am very honest with my opinions and try not to jump on bandwagons like some other members do with the big companies. I like products that work,the ZT2 does.

I will say the only time I have heard of an issue with a Zeitronix unit is with a friends evo. Her car was some how anti zeitronix...just would not work or give consistent readings w/ a/f. I installed, unistalled i believe 3/4 times...never did figure out what it was. She is no longer using Zeitronix and the wideband she has now works on her car.
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Old Jul 18, 2008, 09:47 PM
  #29  
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All I know is I just bought and installed and autometer Wideband. The thing has been in for 1 week and it is REALLY jumpy. When i blip the throttle just barely it goes from 14.7 to 10 then up to 20 before it goes back to 14.7.

it also says at WOT I'm at 10.0 and ams tuned me for 11.5. I am desperate for help and I have a thread on it:
Here: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=358243
..if anyone has more ideas. I'm going to try a "better" ground and power source this weekend.

If I continue to have problems I'm going to ditch this and buy something else.
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Old Jul 18, 2008, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Zeitronix View Post
Digital serial stream is preferable since it outputs actual number not a voltage, which needs to be further processed. When you start measuring analog voltages you are dealing with ground offsets, A/D conversion errors, noise etc. This applies to all measurements not just wideband AFR meters. Use a digital output if available. If you have no other choice then log analog signals.
Hey Z,

Can you give a bit more detail about how the ZT-2 keeps its calibration correct? ie it is self managed, but how?

Cheers
D.
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