higher boost/lower timing - how far is too far?
Oct 29, 2008, 06:26 PM
#63
Stock motor, no failsafes that I found, boost level is unknown to us and the overall state of the tune (we didnt tune it). There was no external damage to the block. I went to pull plugs and #1 didnt want to come out, 2 & 3 came out with the straps crushed into the copper, and 4 was okay although it was drenched in oil and coolant. I knew it was had when I pulled the radiator cap and it was dry though.
I cant say with 100% surety though that it was because of the lean mix, I know we prefer rich on any meth mix though just as a precaution. This just happened to be a case of 2+2 to me, though it very well could be a hidden variable or simply bad luck.
I cant say with 100% surety though that it was because of the lean mix, I know we prefer rich on any meth mix though just as a precaution. This just happened to be a case of 2+2 to me, though it very well could be a hidden variable or simply bad luck.
Last edited by JohnBradley; Oct 29, 2008 at 06:28 PM.
Oct 29, 2008, 09:08 PM
#67
I can tell you the motor had been run on h2o for several years @ 12~12.5. Recently added 50/50 meth/h2o. Tune was not changed from h2o tune
failsafe= The psi drops to 10 psi if flow isn't there. via aquamist/ebcs coordination
I've not been the best parent for that motor.
Running down the straight at PIR , about the fifth lap, in fourth gear @6800 rpm when heard a noise and that was it. Other than the smoke machine in the rear view window.
Happened to have been logging at the time. No knock on that lap, although I had one of those large episodes a few laps before.
failsafe= The psi drops to 10 psi if flow isn't there. via aquamist/ebcs coordination
I've not been the best parent for that motor.
Running down the straight at PIR , about the fifth lap, in fourth gear @6800 rpm when heard a noise and that was it. Other than the smoke machine in the rear view window.
Happened to have been logging at the time. No knock on that lap, although I had one of those large episodes a few laps before.
Oct 30, 2008, 06:08 AM
#68
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I blame my beat up stock FMIC lol.Yeah that was stock turbo. Only thing aftermarket was TBE, intake filter and restrictor pill. Granted my Evo likes timing compared to others I have tuned. Dont ask me why, but I can easilly run 2* or better across the board compared to my friends with the same mods, same fuel etc. Must be a Wed car!
SQ
Oct 30, 2008, 09:06 AM
#72
I can tell you the motor had been run on h2o for several years @ 12~12.5. Recently added 50/50 meth/h2o. Tune was not changed from h2o tune
failsafe= The psi drops to 10 psi if flow isn't there. via aquamist/ebcs coordination
I've not been the best parent for that motor.
Running down the straight at PIR , about the fifth lap, in fourth gear @6800 rpm when heard a noise and that was it. Other than the smoke machine in the rear view window.
Happened to have been logging at the time. No knock on that lap, although I had one of those large episodes a few laps before.
failsafe= The psi drops to 10 psi if flow isn't there. via aquamist/ebcs coordination
I've not been the best parent for that motor.
Running down the straight at PIR , about the fifth lap, in fourth gear @6800 rpm when heard a noise and that was it. Other than the smoke machine in the rear view window.
Happened to have been logging at the time. No knock on that lap, although I had one of those large episodes a few laps before.
I respectfully disagree, mixed meth needs to be richer from what i have seen.
*PICS*
*PICS*
50/50 and 12-12.5:1 AFRs. There are many reasons that this could have happened but it doesnt appear that the valve snapped first. I realise its impossible to say but there is NO piston so I think it probably destroyed itself first.
*PICS*
*PICS*
50/50 and 12-12.5:1 AFRs. There are many reasons that this could have happened but it doesnt appear that the valve snapped first. I realise its impossible to say but there is NO piston so I think it probably destroyed itself first.
nothere:
Any change of mixture of injection if it be 100% h2O 50/50 or 100% meth has to be completly retuned, or you find distruction like the pics. You have to tune it to be safe.
If your tuning to make power on a 50/50 mix not only does your tuning have to be perfect but the kit needs to be set up right. You can change your your tune simply by changing the jet. Or even moving it to a different spot. You can cause major damage from little things. Unfortunatly many people think they can just buy a kit install it any where and have it work.
As for JB, I respect your experience as you have more than most on this forum. I will have to say given the many variables such as evo 8 or 9, which injection kit, how its installed, how much boost, humidity, temp ect. ect. Its hard to blame just leaner AFRS on the distruction of that motor. Even though they could have help the cause.
The pics looks like cylinder number 1. This is the most common cylinder in our cars to fail with an injection system. "hydrogen bond" the very powerful force that causes the water molecules to stick to one another. This bond makes water some what difficult to atomize and mix properly/evenly into all 4 cylinders. Cylinder number 1 is the natrual runt of the injected 4 as it is last to recieve its cooling mix.
I would be very intrested to see the install of this kit so I can pin point a more possiable cause of failure. I would not point this directly at the tune or running to "lean of AFRS" but more towards a change in the injection system, clog or improperly set up system.
As for the 50/50 running richer or leaner, I have to be clear. With the injection set up of you will be technically leaner because the meth adds to your afrs appearing to be richer. To what exact point are you leaner? Again to many variables, depends on what size your injection jets are. How many jets. How much boost. The list keeps going. Expect 11.8- to extreme 12.5 AFRS with a 50/50 injection system. 12.5 is a street/drag and no way should be run on a road course.
I hope this was a little more clear as there are to many variables, before I was just speaking in general for most kits.
Evan Smith
Last edited by Vivid Racing; Oct 30, 2008 at 09:48 AM. Reason: making it sound nicer ;)
Oct 30, 2008, 09:29 AM
#73
SWing and a line drive, Yes it was cylinder one. Also I appreciate and agree with your expertise and appraisal of what was going on. The thing is this was on a road course and I havent ever tuned a car leaner than 11.0 for 20 min lapping sessions with higher timing and low boost with a splash of racegas added to the mix. This wasnt one of our cars so it is what it is, but even then I dont tune many circuit cars so I err on the side of caution anyway.
Like I had said before (and agree with you on) there were many variables at play I am sure, so it wasnt fair for me to say it was X or Y when it very well could have been Q
Like I had said before (and agree with you on) there were many variables at play I am sure, so it wasnt fair for me to say it was X or Y when it very well could have been Q
Oct 30, 2008, 09:43 AM
#74
SWing and a line drive, Yes it was cylinder one. Also I appreciate and agree with your expertise and appraisal of what was going on. The thing is this was on a road course and I havent ever tuned a car leaner than 11.0 for 20 min lapping sessions with higher timing and low boost with a splash of racegas added to the mix. This wasnt one of our cars so it is what it is, but even then I dont tune many circuit cars so I err on the side of caution anyway.
Like I had said before (and agree with you on) there were many variables at play I am sure, so it wasnt fair for me to say it was X or Y when it very well could have been Q
Like I had said before (and agree with you on) there were many variables at play I am sure, so it wasnt fair for me to say it was X or Y when it very well could have been Q
See Razorlab...
Forums can be respectful and not always a pissing match
(JK)Evan Smith
