Raceghost

iTrader: (4)

All is well. The scaling work. Boost Error changes in the logs, and the TBEC tables apply changes. Gear based boost is working, just needs some refinements from my end to be dialed in.

Big thanks again Tephra, Roadspike, and Ace.

Yes. I have my tables set similiar. I am not sure what the MAF IAT table is for? Mine is set to -10 in the 14 column, and +5 in the 95 column. Also the WGDC Limit during fault, you have 0.0% and mine is at 62.5%. Before the V7, I hadn't seen these tables, not sure what they are for.

WGDC tables, I have numbers in there, but in my logs, they are not syncing. My WGDC log does not reflect whats in my tables, with or with out the TBEC tables(which are working now that we have the correct scalings). I hold my desired boost of 22 tapering to 20 at redline. But I get the random knock through the range, and notice this knock where the anomoly of the WGDC changes are.

Also, why if I had this map tuned for boost of 23 psi, and dropped it to 22/21 ish, do I get mor knock at less boost? I haven't changed the timing map or fuel map, but get more knock now.
When adjusting boost down, do you change your WGDC?

Maybe I need to take this into a tuning thread of some sort.

RoadSpike

iTrader: (5)

Basically the IAT adds boost or subtracts boost depending on how cold it is outside.

I usually have mine to fluctuate at a minimum becuase with a 3 port 10% does ALOT .

Next the WGDC Limit during fault should be 0% unless you want wategate duty to push boost when there is a problem. The table is a wategate duty cap during a ecu fault which is bad :P.

If your wategate duty cycles aren't match its probably the IAT correction or the boost error correction kicking in. Look at wategate duty correction % when logging to verify.

To adjust boost use bost the wategate duty table and set the desired boost table where you desire it. If your knocking at lower boost then your ignition map isn't properly setup for that load% area.

Raceghost

iTrader: (4)

Nice! Very good info. This is never mentioned in any of the tuning manuals. This almost seems logical to be added in or updated over in the Mfred's and EvoKids 3port tuning thread. I figured stock settings would be good, and assumed these tables held the stock settings. Will make the corrected adjustments.

Makes sense. Will do that in the next run.

Usually meens I need to retard the timing, how do you tell when to retard and when to advance? I do get the concept of the psi based and have been running it for a year. I have some questions about the "Normal Boost Curve", "Wastegate Duty Cycle Curve" and what they look like. ....or is it draw a line and tune for that. Some maps that I have seen are running 0 WGDC through 2500 rpms and then shooting up to 50, but having a bull shape, etc. Others have full WGDC (100%) dropping down as boost increases to redline.

What is the correct, or best way for baseline curve? Same applies to the Desired Boost curve.

Thanks in advance.

RoadSpike

iTrader: (5)

Well while there is not set way of determining what to do you do want the timing curve to be as smooth as possible from transitions of load, rpm,etc.

You know when to retard the timing because the knock sensor picks up the knock consistently at some set point of rpm and load. This show you there is a problem in that one area. Usually the beginning of the knock is the culprit and the ecu pulling timing in other areas shouldn't be touched. These decisions are also influenced by the fuel being used and the AFR at the time of the event.

My personal take is to keep WG duty at 0 until you reach the minimum spool point of the turbo. In my red's case the minimum spool of this guy is like 3500rpm so everything is a 0 up to 3000, just in case it decides to spool there.

I use a rising WG duty flow so WG will be starting like 40% and rising to 70% to keep the boost going in the higher rpm for the red to achieve 30psi. I also use the minimum WGDC%=100% under this load table to make the red spool up even earlier.

In the old days we would keep waste gate duty at % in the table and drop off as it started to spool to prevent spikes but with this new table that's unnecessary in my eyes.

To tune the WG duty cycle you need to just do trial and error. Start by eliminating the boost error correction by making them all 0's on the right hand side. I suggest starting out with a basic 30% duty and seeing where the boost ends up and slowly increasing the values percentage wise until you reach target. Then play with the boost error correction table to adjust for any changes in weather and call it done.

Raceghost

iTrader: (4)

I have similiar settings, but watch as my WGDC goes to 100 long before I touch boost, and then when I go WOT, it then decreases to meet the rising WGDC table settings...? My spool also is in the late 3500's range, making peak boost at 4k.

Is it lower wastegate duty=higher boost, or opposite? I have been assuming the opposite, only for this new version decided to go with the 0 method and rise.

ace33joe

iTrader: (2)

Glad the scaling works, I will reflash mine and love to see it working myself.

Great features of tephra V7 boost control scheme:

1. Gear based boost control = I guess no need to explain further. Consistent and individual boost control for every gear! No need to set the boost for high gear, and sacrifice low gear acceleration to prevent overboost at high gears.

2. WGDC vs. IAT = One boost setting for all weather conditions. Used to change WGDC settings for each season. Summer setting used to give too much boost spike at winter, and winter settings used to give too slow boost response at summer, but not anymore!

3. WGDC vs. TPS = More linear and delicate control of power is not possible! After I installed a DP + LICP + Intercooler, My TME RS turbo made full boost of 22psi with only slight touch of gas pedal at highway cruising speed, which used to give my ankle some pain.

4. 100% WGDC under certain load = Not only help faster spool, but it eliminated clicking sound of my GM 3-port solenoid during it is not warmed up.

5. WGDC vs. Coolant temp = Although our 94170715 V7 table has a wrong address on that table, but it sets the WGDC to 0 until coolant temp reaches 55 celcius degree. It will help staying out of boost until engine warms up.

Did I miss anything else?

ace33joe

iTrader: (2)

To set the desired engine load (or boost) at low rpm depends on the compressor surge at lower rpm.

Subaru STi has 0 or low boost at the target boost value until actual spool-up rpm while VIII has maximum target value at lower rpm. It helped a lot reducing compressor surge at my friend's STi with 20G-TD05 (Big compressor housing/wheel + smaller turbine setting is more susceptible to compressor surge).

Stock IX map has similar settings, although it has maximum target value until 2250rpm, but BCS is turned off at those low rpms. My guess is that IX has bigger compressor housing than VIII, so they set the desired engine load lower at spool-up areas to prevent compressor surge.

It may feel like severe knocking when compressor surge occurs, and ECU does think it as knocking because it pulls the timing.

Oh well, I am having more knock at lower rpm/load (~2500 rpm and starting around 140 load), and it may also be from compressor surge.

I used to have occasional knock at that spool-up area (when stock DP + LICP + intercooler), but now I get more also consistently. (aftermarket DP + LICP + intercooler + V7's 100% WGDC under 160 kPa load, which aids spool up considerably)

I think it is a little bit of OT here, but what would be the right strategy to fight this spool-up knock if it is not from compressor surge?

Raceghost

iTrader: (4)

To my knowledge we only get the one benefit of gear based. If we are on MAF, the RPM/MPH crossover settings if I understand it only gives us one point of change. I was not aware that we can get different boost per gear with out MAT?

Linear transistion I assume. At partial throttle, partial WGDC correction?

With the older 0015v5 rom, it clicked all the time. This new rom doesn't seem to do it as much. These settings bring up an interesting question. Roadspike and I were discussing WGDC. Setting it to 0 till aprox 3k. This table here seems to throw that away....

ace33joe

iTrader: (2)

Nope, the factory high/low gear setting gives only one switch point, but tephra gear based control has "every gear". If you log the "gear" variable, you will see that.

Since you can set how much percentage is multiplied to your base WGDC vs. TPS, you can have different boost level vs. TPS.

For example, if you set 50% of WGDC applied at 25% of TPS, then your WGDC scales by half when you are at 25% TPS, which means you won't get full boost even at 5th gear and over 4k rpm where only slight touch of gas pedal can give full boost.

Because there are multiple factors that affect WGDC now, it seems some factors overrides others.

For example, factory BCS turn on/off point is set near 2250rpm, and we now have 100% load under a certain load. What I noticed was that the WGDC remains 100% under 2250rpm like when idling. Although WGDC remains 0 until coolant temp reaches 55 degree Celsius.

I guess the main WGDC setting table has the most priority, so if you set it 0 till 3k rpm, I guess you will get 0 WGDC even under the preset load value, I guess I might do that myself, because I don't think it wouldn't help prolong the life of solenoid if it is turned on even at idling.

RoadSpike

iTrader: (5)

Kinda off topic but just as general FYI I've noticed most of my spool up knock comes from the huge transition in timing from just about to boost to boosting. Larger the timing drop the most knock prone it becomes so sometimes the best thing to do is drop the timing from the higher knock free point to prevent knock when it drops to its lowest timing point.

Raceghost

iTrader: (4)

Nope, remains zero till 140 temp, and then rises to 100 at idle, even with my WGDC tables set to 0.

Yes, Tephra built the boost table in there that shows all gears, but there is a switch still. The Boost Control High/Low Gear RPM/MPH crossover point only allows for one speed setting. It is stock at 2900 wich the system is shut off. You have to enter in the crossover point to get the specific gear you want to change boost in.

Maybe this system needs more explanation from the guru's. I have yet to find that all 5 gears work. My settings show that the crossover point I have, boost changes between 3-4 gears.

Why would the crossover table and the RPM/Speed to gear table still be utilized if it automaticaly was able to do gear based control just utilizing the main boost table?

It doesn't make sense, but then again I am new to the gear based boost.

Any settings you have found that work ok as a baseline, or are you still at 100% across the entire table?

ace33joe

iTrader: (2)

Ok, I misunderstood your post, I thought your main WGDC table was set to 0 under 3k, and I thought the actual WGDC reflects that even with 100% WGDC under a certain load setting. Then it is the opposite, 100% WGDC under a certain load setting overrides the main WGDC setting. Then I do not have to bother touching my main WGDC table.

Did you try changing the "RPM/SPEED to gear" table? That table determines which gear you are in. I attached screen shot of my setting, and please mind that the scaling is in RPM/KPH.

I am not sure I understood your question fully, but this TPS compensated WGDC also works when it is over the 100% WGDC under a certain load condition. So under, say 160 kPa, WGDC remains 100% all the time.

ace33joe

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the tip. I will try your timing strategy.

tephra

iTrader: (6)

the old rpm/speed crossover value is still used, but only for TBEC interval...

log gear, that should tell you what gear you are in, if it's slightly wrong then you will need to adjust the rpm/speed ratio table (in V7)

Raceghost

iTrader: (4)

It is.

No, it logs at 100% even with my table set to 0 prior to 3k.

Exactly. My point was better a question to find out what the benefit of this is. MrFred utilizes very low WGDC in the low RPM range, and then the WG rises as it climbs the rpm band. He referenced this style of tuning in his ECU based boost, and 3 port threads. This table we are talking about throws that out the window in the low RPMS. From a noob tuner perspective, this causes conflict as to what method or manner of tuning WGDC is best. Hence my post 183 earlier when I was referncing tuning technique.

Yes, I set this table to similiar settings. I want to say Appauldd posted the settings for us earlier in this thread...lol.

Ah, I see... Ok so it is only used for the low/high interval point. Now it is starting to make sense...

The Main Boost Table and Main WG table are independantly controlled by gear/rpm utilizing the RPM/Speed to gear table to tell boost control what gear it is in. Boost in 1st gear goes off column 1 in the boost table and then when the ecu senses you shift to second, by means of the lookup in the RPM/Speed to gear table, it switches to column 2, and so on... same goes for the wgdc table.
sometimes I feel like such a brick...lol