ethan169

iTrader: (3)

Ok so im trying to understand whats going on in my tune here to better asses things and maybe later on play around with it a little and retune myself.

In the timing map the 3x8 section of cells with negative numbers at high load and sub 1k RPM whats going on here? When would the car actually hit these cells? Also after reading the how to tune an evo thread like 200 times and still counting Ive always read to make smooth changes between adjacent cells? I see -8* to 9* timing in adjacent cells etc. Im sure theres a reason for this im just curious of why?

Also the low load and low RPM area I have a section of cells that all have 14* timing. If i remember from a while back the stock rom had more like -14* timing in this area and it wasn't so large. Ill assume this is for the cams I put in? (GSC S2's) How does this massively increased timing help my idle? I didnt notice much of a difference. I mean its lopey wich i dont mind...but it was lopey before too.

What about the two cells of 8* timing at 0-10 load and 1250 rpm. Also for idle? Why the difference?

Mods I have done in case it is relevant to anything:
- GSC S2's
- Buschur TBE with HFC (now a test pipe)
--open element air filter. its just the stock tube with K&N MAF adapter
- Perrin MBC set at 23psi peak ish
- walbro 255

Although in my sig it says Tuned by mellon this was retuned by a different tuner. I was looking for a dyno tune after my cams that is why I didnt go back to Mellon. I keep that down there to offer support because Chris is a great guy and tuner.

Thanks for any help guys Im just trying to understand whats going on here

EDIT: oh just in-case anyone was wondering. I changed the color scheme in EcuFlash to this somewhat "flamboyant" one because it was much easier to see from a screen shot. The factory set one was this super dark blue that you couldn't see the higher timing numbers or lower AFR number very well. That is all....

05blue8

iTrader: (28)

If I had to guess it would be pretty rare for a car to ever hit those load cells at idle, which is why they were basically "ignored". In looking back at my logs my load at idle is 30ish pretty consistently.

lan_evo_mr9

iTrader: (10)

Not really sure about those 8's, 12's, and I think those are 13's. I don't know why they aren't smoothed up from the 14's. Kinda weird.

ethan169

iTrader: (3)

Yup those are 13's sorry for the crap quality. Im not sure of a better way to take a screen shot of those.

The 1250 row reads 8 8 12 12 18 22 22
The 1500 row reads 13 13 19 19 28 26 25

In case there is any confusion....

I thought that was kind of weird too but im just learning so I was unsure what the reasoning is behind that.

donour

iTrader: (6)

I would guess those 8s are the result of somebody not looking very closely at what they were doing. The stock map has lower values (5) around idle, then smoothly transitions as RPM go up. It looks like the big block was set to 14, but the boundry wasn't smoothed appropriately.

It's not really a problem because 1250 RPM idle at 10 load is coast down with the throttle closed. The injectors are probably shut off altogether so it hardly matters when the coils fire.

d

ethan169

iTrader: (3)

any comments or information on the timing being +14* compared to the original -14*?

EvoIan

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I've seen similar, I had an email tune before I knew anything about tuning. I'm no expert by any means but when I took a closer look at it, I saw there was a spike where the tuner pasted part of one map on top of another and forgot to smooth.

denver

iTrader: (9)

I looked at this and to sum it up, I wouldn't go back to this tuner. The map looks very sloppy, and not smooth.

take a look at the map in 3d the timing should advance smoothly up to about 100 load, or where spool up begins, then it should start smoothly tapering off to peak load. looking from Left to right.... looking from top to bottom, it should generally advance as rpm increases. The reason I say look at the 3d map is because if there are jagged peaks, or what I call cliffs, abrupt increases for one load line to the next, it will show a sure sign of an issue with the table.

I take it a step further when I do my car and graph everything in excel and use trend lines to calculate what I think the "cells you will never reach" should be so the whole map is as smooth as it can be and looks like a rolling hill rather than a jagged cliff edge.

l2r99gst

iTrader: (2)

I would have to agree with this. I still don't understand how some of these tunes are actually paid for. This looks like an older Dynoflash tune where he block tunes half of the map. Look at that sea of 6s...it used to be a sea of 8s.

Obviously, this was just a quick and dirty, slap a tune on the car. I don't know who this tuner was, but maybe next time go to a tuner that actually bases your maps off of your logs and then knows how to tune the adjacent areas of the map that your log may not have covered.

nothere

iTrader: (23)

its a good thing the knock sensor fails towards more indicated knock than the alternate.

ethan169

iTrader: (3)

This is troubling information to hear because this tuner is supposed to be one of the best on the east coast . I paid good money for this tune and drove 150 miles one way for it on my weekend. Needless to say I wasnt too impressed. But I didnt want to dismiss anybody as I am not a professional (obviously or I would have done this myself). The tuner is a name that I guarantee 100% of the people on this form know who this is. Its not Dynoflash...

Something to add to this I spent all of this money on a JDM Map sensor and LC-1 for logging boost and AFR. The tuner didnt use either of these. I understand not using my WB02 becasue he has his own on the dyno. But boost was based off of my crappy mechanical guage???? Its evo scan.. all you have to do is tick the box that says JDM Map and its logged. He said it didnt matter. This is prob why I was seeing spokes of 30psi on down shifts running a stock VIII 9.8 hot side turbo. I didnt question him because so many people have said hes miracle worker.

So what do I do now? I still seem to suffering some phantom knock here and there which may be from my tune.

This is why I want to learn how to tune myself because I have a hard time trusting some people.

sucks....

l2r99gst

iTrader: (2)

That's my best advice to you. It's a lot better learning something for yourself than wondering what someone else is doing.

That's what this forum is for. There are plenty of threads that teach you how to tune. Have you read through those? I would start there and then ask specific questions about issues that you are having.

It's hard to just look at your map and say, change this, change that. It's a process of logging, adjusting, logging, adjusting. It's something that you have to do. You'll get the hang of it quickly.

Then, if you have any specific questions, ask away. But general questions seem to go unanswered or people just don't feel like responding over and over to a question that may have several answers or require lengthy explanations on basic topics.

GST Motorsports

iTrader: (8)

There is no negative timing on the stock ignition map from 90 load and below.

Stock ignition map on Evo 8:



- Bryan

denver

iTrader: (9)

Agreed!
From reading your first post, you are doing the right things... read as much as you can on this forum, and try some stuff.... just make small changes and see what it does. Ask questions, post up your maps and logs if you have question etc.

There are also a lot of good base maps out there with the same general mods you have, you could look at for reference, start conservative and have a go at it.

ethan169

iTrader: (3)

As stated before I have been reading through the EcuFlash form since around early 2008 when things started to get more advanced it seemed. Also I have read the basic "How to tune an Evo" thread quite a few times and watched some of those videos that were floating around. Maybe Ill take another look at those as well.

I guess I dont really know where to start right now. I could go back to a stock rom but I feel like it would be tough to get things in order with my cams? Also I could go back to my mellon ROM and tweak that? His tune was basically same mods except for cams and test pipe and LICP.


Bryan thanks for the stock Evo 8 timing map. Clears a few questions.

-Ethan

Edit: removed edit...