Need some opinions on my fuel/timing maps
Jun 1, 2010, 09:14 AM
#1
Need some opinions on my fuel/timing maps
Yesterday I went to the track for the first time and I was very dissappointed in the results. The results were so bad that I'm not even going to post them but even with my poor launches I think I still should have done a lot better than I did. I have been suspecting for a while now that I've been running too rich in some areas and after running some scans with Ecuflash and taking a closer look at them last night, I'm pretty sure that I'm right. The problem is that I'm still new to tuning and I'm hesitant to change anything right now, especially since I don't have a wideband yet.
So what I'm asking is if some you pros could take a look at my fuel and ignition maps and tell me what you think. The car was retuned a few months ago by a shop local to me and there are some areas in the maps that just don't make sense to me. The main areas that I'm curious about are from 3500-5500 RPM and 140-260 load. I'm thinking it may have to do with when I'm hitting peak boost to prevent knock but when I've look at other peoples' maps I don't see the same thing. My mods are in my sig and I should also add that the tuning shop put a pill in the stock boost controller so I'm peaking at about 25 PSI around 4500 RPM (I think) and tapering down from there. I wish I could give you more reliable numbers on that but I don't have them available right now. Also, I know I definitely need to get a wideband so that I can really see what's going on but in the mean time I was hoping that some of you could at least help me understand why my maps look the way they do because there are areas that don't make sense to me based on what I've seen from others. Thanks in advance for your help!
So what I'm asking is if some you pros could take a look at my fuel and ignition maps and tell me what you think. The car was retuned a few months ago by a shop local to me and there are some areas in the maps that just don't make sense to me. The main areas that I'm curious about are from 3500-5500 RPM and 140-260 load. I'm thinking it may have to do with when I'm hitting peak boost to prevent knock but when I've look at other peoples' maps I don't see the same thing. My mods are in my sig and I should also add that the tuning shop put a pill in the stock boost controller so I'm peaking at about 25 PSI around 4500 RPM (I think) and tapering down from there. I wish I could give you more reliable numbers on that but I don't have them available right now. Also, I know I definitely need to get a wideband so that I can really see what's going on but in the mean time I was hoping that some of you could at least help me understand why my maps look the way they do because there are areas that don't make sense to me based on what I've seen from others. Thanks in advance for your help!
Jun 1, 2010, 09:17 AM
#2
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Wow that is some crappy tuning. VERY choppy esp on the timing sections under boost.
For starters, peak tq areas around 3-3500 on Evo 8's, SHOULD be able to get away with 3-5degrees, linearly ramping up towards 18-21 -dependent on how much boost you're running. Key is smooth transitions, choppiness often times creates knock which will hurt performance.
As far as fueling, first and foremost you need a wideband as you mentioned, secondly try smoothing the transitions IF the AFRS seem to line up with where they should (~12.5 during spool>11.5 peak tq>11.0 redline). If your fuel map looks fine *checked via wideband* then you might need to rescale your MAF in order for the plugged in numbers to look more "normal".
edit: honestly, I'd just start from scratch I don't foresee ANYTHING positive coming out of working with this map.
For starters, peak tq areas around 3-3500 on Evo 8's, SHOULD be able to get away with 3-5degrees, linearly ramping up towards 18-21 -dependent on how much boost you're running. Key is smooth transitions, choppiness often times creates knock which will hurt performance.
As far as fueling, first and foremost you need a wideband as you mentioned, secondly try smoothing the transitions IF the AFRS seem to line up with where they should (~12.5 during spool>11.5 peak tq>11.0 redline). If your fuel map looks fine *checked via wideband* then you might need to rescale your MAF in order for the plugged in numbers to look more "normal".
edit: honestly, I'd just start from scratch I don't foresee ANYTHING positive coming out of working with this map.
Last edited by inco9nito99; Jun 1, 2010 at 09:35 AM.
Jun 1, 2010, 09:20 AM
#3
EvoM Community Team Leader
you need to smooth out that timing and get rid of that big block of 5's
Jun 1, 2010, 09:21 AM
#4
Thanks for the confirmation. Any opinions on how to fix it? I've been playing around with the interpolate functions in Ecuflash to smooth it but like I said, I'm new and don't have my wideband yet so I don't want to break anything.
Jun 1, 2010, 09:32 AM
#6
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Your 160 load column is looking like someone was trying to intentionally blow your motor, I would not even go wot before a re tune. It should ramp up gradually from low to high rpm, not jump to 14 then go back down. I would look at the map in the how to tune an evo thread and go from there. Good luck, be careful.
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Jun 1, 2010, 09:49 AM
#8
Wow, you should be very careful with this tune. It's all over the place bro. I see a lot of errors already in both maps.
Timing: Keep it as smooth as possible, timing must rise as RPMs rise at WOT and at part throttle. That big line of 5's is a no-no. You're not running enough timing to keep EGTs in check, i would bet. I can see why this engine would be down on power.
Fuel: Again, keep it smooth. DON'T touch these tables without a proper wideband. I won't even go into how to tune fuel, because you shouldn't be touching these tables without a wideband. Those number reference nothing, they are just numbers, so you have no idea what your AFRs are actually doing. THis is a good way to destroy your motor, of just have a poorly running one.
Here are my current maps. This is with a FP Black and is a much different setup than yours. Every engine is different anyway and will want different things, so this is just for reference ONLY. This is also for a 2005 Evo VIII. Note especially my timing maps. Yours will not necessarily looks just like this, but keep it smooth.
Fueling was kept smooth and consistant through the map, this is also especially help when extrapolating a tune from one boost level to another.
Timing: Keep it as smooth as possible, timing must rise as RPMs rise at WOT and at part throttle. That big line of 5's is a no-no. You're not running enough timing to keep EGTs in check, i would bet. I can see why this engine would be down on power.
Fuel: Again, keep it smooth. DON'T touch these tables without a proper wideband. I won't even go into how to tune fuel, because you shouldn't be touching these tables without a wideband. Those number reference nothing, they are just numbers, so you have no idea what your AFRs are actually doing. THis is a good way to destroy your motor, of just have a poorly running one.
Here are my current maps. This is with a FP Black and is a much different setup than yours. Every engine is different anyway and will want different things, so this is just for reference ONLY. This is also for a 2005 Evo VIII. Note especially my timing maps. Yours will not necessarily looks just like this, but keep it smooth.
Fueling was kept smooth and consistant through the map, this is also especially help when extrapolating a tune from one boost level to another.
Last edited by iTune; Jun 1, 2010 at 09:52 AM.
Jun 1, 2010, 09:56 AM
#9
Wow! Based on what you guys are saying I'm lucky the thing didn't blow up yesterday. Thanks for all of the help! I will definitely get a wideband asap and then go from there. I just wanted some opinions to back up what I was thinking.
Jun 1, 2010, 03:13 PM
#12
Thanks for the offer! I wish I were a little closer but Indiana is about 4 hours for me depending on where you're at. I'd rather not say the name of the shop cuz I don't want to rip them without knowing for sure why they did what they did. I will say that it wasn't AMS and I'm considering just taking the car there to have it retuned for now and picking up the wideband in another month or two depending on how finances work out. If I get the wideband now the gauge itself is gonna cost me about $200 plus install. I might be able to do the install myself, but then I'll still need to get it retuned which will require me paying $250-$400 to have someone else do it, or me spending a lot more time learning about tuning so that I can do it myself. Either way it's gonna cost me $400-$600 to fix the problem. Right now I'm leaning towards the AMS option since I can get that done faster and they can dyno tune it so I'll know that it's done right.
Jun 1, 2010, 07:33 PM
#14
Thanks for the offer! I wish I were a little closer but Indiana is about 4 hours for me depending on where you're at. I'd rather not say the name of the shop cuz I don't want to rip them without knowing for sure why they did what they did. I will say that it wasn't AMS and I'm considering just taking the car there to have it retuned for now and picking up the wideband in another month or two depending on how finances work out. If I get the wideband now the gauge itself is gonna cost me about $200 plus install. I might be able to do the install myself, but then I'll still need to get it retuned which will require me paying $250-$400 to have someone else do it, or me spending a lot more time learning about tuning so that I can do it myself. Either way it's gonna cost me $400-$600 to fix the problem. Right now I'm leaning towards the AMS option since I can get that done faster and they can dyno tune it so I'll know that it's done right.
Dan
