eTiLiKo

iTrader: (1)

When someone ask me : "can we tune with a MBC?" I always reply "I prefer to use the stock ECU controlled EBC".
The reasons are :
1)With the stock ECU controlled EBC I can have the best spool and response
2)The ECU is in full control of the Load in any case
3)The customer can't tweak with the boost and maybe blown the engine.
4)I Know HOW to do, and I don't need a 3-port or a map sensor to have high boost

Yes, setting the stock EBC is very time consuming, when I don't tune the stock EBC the tuning time is less than half. But the best way to control boost is with the stock EBC.

MR Turco

iTrader: (16)

I have had terrible luck tuning the AVCR in the past. I hate it, of course everything being in metric doesn't help me

leecavturbo

i have ultra stable boost

i don't know if this side has been a topic for others but we have found better boost control with having the smallest bore vac pipes and the shortest.
?

Boosted Tuning

iTrader: (12)

This is the post I post when there is a MBC vs ECU-boost thread.

ECU boost isnt for everyone. Tuning ECU boost can be kinda complex and the end user may not know how to lower and raise there boost if they need to (like if they add parts, and boost starts spiking and/or oscillating. OR if they need to lower boost for some reason)

Also, ECU boost isnt cheaper. To have proper ECU boost you need:

- A 3 port solenoid
- A MAP sensor

Then you also have to:

-Mod the ROM for the MAP sensor
-Mod the ROM for PSI based boost.

And last you have to tune it (which take a good amount of time more then a MBC).

To some people thats a lot of work compared to the install, set & forget style of a MBC. Also, the cost of a 3 port and MAP sensor is more expensive then a MBC.

Yes w/ ECU boost you will be able too hold more boost from 5Krpm-redline and you will/can make about an extra 10-15HP&TQ in that area.

But to some people that 10-15 HP&TQ up top just isnt worth the hassle of ECU boost.

Also there is a handful of ways to get a MBC to hold more boost from 5Krpm-redline and gain that same 10-15 HP&TQ.

Yes, there is other benefits of ECU boost, like being able to switch boost levels/profiles when switching maps. Also there is the stealth-ness of it.

But still, for some people, a MBC is just fine.

Jack_of_Trades

iTrader: (17)

For dual map users, Not a fan of a single MBC since I have to rely on THEM to tinker with boost levels and that frigtens me with some guys out there,lol.

For single Map users, MBC FTW! Like Mellon said, lower boost can generally be compensated for with timing adjustments.

I love to tinker so I am also a huge fan of ECU controlled boost but it is cumbersome and time consuming. Some dont like the fact that the user can crank boost levels with an MBC and run in unsafe load ranges that aren't tuned but thats what the load limits are for If they mess with stuff, they'll hit a brick wall. Its my way of installing my very own "pimp slap across the face" feature into the tune. Hitting the brick wall is a reminder to them that they are messing with crap they probably shouldn't be haha. Plus its a great BOOST LEAK alarm.

I've installed a few MBC/dual map hybrid rigs that were insanely cheap yet very effective.

Appauldd

iTrader: (22)

I look at tuning as like a sport. There are novices, intermediate, pro, and expert.

Novice....MBC all the way
Intermediate...MBC or EBC
Pro...EBC, ECU EBC
Expert....any and all

So, depending on your capability you should match the boost control method that suits your experience level.

As for which is "better", I don't think any one has an advantage over any of the others as each can be tuned for it's specific application.

If the method of controlled boost can take into account temperature and barometric pressure.....it certainly would be the control method of choice because it would be a full set and forget boost control system.

Jack_of_Trades

iTrader: (17)

The nice thing about EBC controlled boost is the ability to regulate the boost pressure regardless of the weather with its compensation. MBC's will be affected by air density which changes the boost levels with MBC's. I hate having to adjust my MBC in the winter vs. the summer cuz they are so finicky to adjust to the right boost levels at times (then again, EBC's can be too at times). My boost levels would vary by more than 2 PSI from cold mornings to scortching hot mid-days in New England. So if Boost stays put, the only other thing you really need to worry about is timing adjustments for weather.

Mellon Racing

iTrader: (38)

If a 2psi change causes a problem for your car then the tune needs work

Mellon Racing

iTrader: (38)

ok, I'm going to work with Evan's car and do a comparison: MBC which we've already tuned vs his 3port forcing it to hold pressure out further if possible on the stock turbo.

here's where we are currently with the MBC: When I'm done we'll do an overlay to make sure AFR is as close as possible. I'll likely need to lower timing slightly if we're able to achieve more boost to keep it safe but I'll push it just as hard as before to get everything out of it without making it dangerous of course.

Fast_Freddie

iTrader: (50)

I have had the Greddy Profec-B spec II since I bought the car, and once you learn all of its quirks it does its job quite well...

MBCs are easy to use...

ECU boost seems to be the rave lately, however I have high and low boost setting already with the Profec-B so I see no point in spending time switching...

Jack_of_Trades

iTrader: (17)

So you are saying a tune shouldn't have any affect if someone added 2 psi more to their tune? That can be a significant airflow addition on certain turbos, especially if the 2 psi addition bumps them into a less efficient range with more heat added to the air charge. So I politely disagree with you that 2 psi is insignificant.

buchnerj

iTrader: (19)

Take a look at your boost curve though, unsmoothed. It will be very jerky and lead to spikes. High and low settings are nice for the dual maps, but again this is accounted for in the dual map tune with ECU boost. While that boost button is nice to switch boost, the switch or just clutch pedal switch for the Tephra v7 switches timing, boost, and everything with just the push of the pedal.

I agree that EBC and the Profec are cool, but they will not be the same as ECU boost by far. They can only control boost and not the other factors of the ECU, they lead to sporadic boost plot charts due to the port of the EBC constantly changing the pressure, ECU boost is much smoother and it will hold it better to redline even still.

What I mean with the EBC control is you can see variations like this, 20psi is the target (spool up,15,18,21,22,19,20,21,19) it will keep fluctuating to find the 20psi it is looking for, but very rarely find the sweet spot and hold it there for any significant amount of time. Some times you can see some pretty large boost spikes of up to 5+psi under cold weather conditions and driving the car hard, etc.

I ran one of my Prelude, and was considering one for the Evo, but then saw a few plots of them and it led me to the MBC, and eventually ECU boost. Trying not to be biased, but just presenting some problems with EBCs that I have seen over the years.

xmaciek82x

iTrader: (14)

From a business stand point, I can see how a ECU based boost control would no be cost efficient for the regular car with TBE and a tune. Like many stated it is definetly not cheaper then a MBC. So a tuner that is offering his service to a client, MBC is the way to go.

For people that tune their own car and do it for fun, then ECU boost control is definetly a way to go.

DBallz

iTrader: (7)

Although MBC have come a long way they are a simple noob mod.

I have run MBC, AVCR(hated it), SBC-ID, and Grimmspeed. Out of all of them I love the Grimmspeed the most. Install was just as fast as MBC. The tune took about 15 minutes longer then MBC. The one thing that I have is Boost Error Correction. The proof of this working for me was in December. I took my evo to Florida via train from VA to Orlando. In Florida it was warm but very humid my boost never faltered. I hit 28 psi and dropped 1 pound at redline as I tuned it. When we returned to VA we got off the train and it was 25degrees. As I jumped on the highway for my drive back to NY 3rd gear punched the gas and my boost responded the same way. Why would the stock boost do this it's Boost Error Correction. A MBC I would have to turn up the boost when arriving in Florida and turn it down when I came back to the cold Northeast.

Plus when running dual maps ECU controlled boost can't be beat.

EVO8LTW

iTrader: (41)

I find the ECU boost tuning process fairly easy with Tephra v7 and it allows you to run optimal boost for each gear. Tuning is all about optimizing fuel, timing and boost. I'd rather have control of all 3 than let one be set by a mechanical device.