Is it me or have people been getting some crappy tunes lately!
Jun 23, 2011, 04:10 PM
#1
Is it me or have people been getting some crappy tunes lately!
Recently there have been a rash of poorly executed tunes that have been posted by board members. It is very discouraging to say the least, since people are paying money for these tunes and are being handed a grenade with the pin pulled. I know there is nothing I can do about the situation, just ranting...
Jun 23, 2011, 04:35 PM
#3
Seems like a couple tuners either don't know what they're doing, or know what they're doing but don't care enough to do things properly.
Jun 23, 2011, 04:35 PM
#4
I've been on this forum for almost a year and half now and it seems like it's always been this way. What's sad is when you hear and see garbage tunes from people that are supposedly "pros." I was personally the victim of a "grenade-with-the-pin-pulled" tune from a shop that's actually on this forum. Fortunately the grenade never went off but that situation basically forced me to learn how to tune my own car and in retrospect, I'm glad it did. There's two things about this that I don't understand:
1.) How can you charge people for a tune when you have no idea what you're doing?
2.) If you do know what you're doing, how can you be so bad at it? (its not rocket science- knock is bad, smooth is good!)
1.) How can you charge people for a tune when you have no idea what you're doing?
2.) If you do know what you're doing, how can you be so bad at it? (its not rocket science- knock is bad, smooth is good!)
Jun 23, 2011, 05:03 PM
#5
Something to keep in mind is some tunes will vary from the map to the log also. IAT correction is a big contributor. Some injector combos have been causing some "odd" looking maps.
Then there is the normal- boost leaks, leaky BOV, knock control was modified (or not enough) for a given combo, injectors are inconsistent, cam timing (install or otherwise), parts combos, etc.
Not defending anyone or even myself for weird looking maps. If they are overly advanced (I have heard of some 22* on pumpgas recently) then yes there are certainly some bad/weird ones. There seems the be a lot of engine damage as well though.
Then there is the normal- boost leaks, leaky BOV, knock control was modified (or not enough) for a given combo, injectors are inconsistent, cam timing (install or otherwise), parts combos, etc.
Not defending anyone or even myself for weird looking maps. If they are overly advanced (I have heard of some 22* on pumpgas recently) then yes there are certainly some bad/weird ones. There seems the be a lot of engine damage as well though.
Jun 23, 2011, 05:05 PM
#6
I just wanted to quote this because it made me chuckle.
I do agree to an extent, bad tunes from said "pros" have always been around (even longer then that super long 1.5 years you have been here), I also do agree with freddie, it's becoming more and more so.
I do agree to an extent, bad tunes from said "pros" have always been around (even longer then that super long 1.5 years you have been here), I also do agree with freddie, it's becoming more and more so.
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Jun 23, 2011, 09:04 PM
#9
Something to keep in mind is some tunes will vary from the map to the log also. IAT correction is a big contributor. Some injector combos have been causing some "odd" looking maps.
Then there is the normal- boost leaks, leaky BOV, knock control was modified (or not enough) for a given combo, injectors are inconsistent, cam timing (install or otherwise), parts combos, etc.
Not defending anyone or even myself for weird looking maps. If they are overly advanced (I have heard of some 22* on pumpgas recently) then yes there are certainly some bad/weird ones. There seems the be a lot of engine damage as well though.
Then there is the normal- boost leaks, leaky BOV, knock control was modified (or not enough) for a given combo, injectors are inconsistent, cam timing (install or otherwise), parts combos, etc.
Not defending anyone or even myself for weird looking maps. If they are overly advanced (I have heard of some 22* on pumpgas recently) then yes there are certainly some bad/weird ones. There seems the be a lot of engine damage as well though.
Jun 23, 2011, 10:12 PM
#10
Evolved Member
I meet self proclaimed tooners all the time. They want to charge everyone $XXX.XX amount for a tune because they can change a couple numbers in Ecuflash.
I say let the Evos die away. I don't want to have to start worrying about mine as they become more affordable.
I say let the Evos die away. I don't want to have to start worrying about mine as they become more affordable.
Jun 24, 2011, 03:36 AM
#12
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Got a buddy with an '03. The thing runs really well for bolt-ons. A month ago we both ran some logs for comparison sake through Virtual Dyno and while I was at it, I looked over his log. 9-10 counts of knock from 3500-5000, then down to 2-3 at redline. Timing was 18,15,12,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8. I just had to laugh. I originally joined this forum in '07 and one of the big topics of the time was someone who was tuning with the "Sea of 8s". He's now running race gas on a regular basis until he tears it down in a couple weeks for major mods and SD. And I plan to get him up and running so he can get to the dyno 2 hours away.
I guess the "sea of 8s" really doesnt happen anymore. This tune was probably old. I wont hesitate to do whatever to my car. But I always sress to my buddies that I certainly can get them in the safe zone, but would never push it on someone else's car. And it will probably be conservative. Im definitely still learning. Have been since '07 when I bought this thing and got the software. And I would never ask for more than a couple drinks. lol
I def. think remote tuning has a lot to do with the amount of tunes on the market these days.
The tune on my car when I bought it was junk. The one I bought to resolve that was junk. Both were WAAY too aggressive for 91 oct and is exactly what made me buy some books, software and start learning. Im glad those tunes were junk.
And Im glad that most of the folks on these forums are extremely helpful and knowledgable. And that a resource like this exist so everyone isnt forced into being at the mercy of the person on the other end of the email. As long as you have patience and a little common sense, there is no reason to pay for a junk tune.
I guess the "sea of 8s" really doesnt happen anymore. This tune was probably old. I wont hesitate to do whatever to my car. But I always sress to my buddies that I certainly can get them in the safe zone, but would never push it on someone else's car. And it will probably be conservative. Im definitely still learning. Have been since '07 when I bought this thing and got the software. And I would never ask for more than a couple drinks. lol
I def. think remote tuning has a lot to do with the amount of tunes on the market these days.
The tune on my car when I bought it was junk. The one I bought to resolve that was junk. Both were WAAY too aggressive for 91 oct and is exactly what made me buy some books, software and start learning. Im glad those tunes were junk.
And Im glad that most of the folks on these forums are extremely helpful and knowledgable. And that a resource like this exist so everyone isnt forced into being at the mercy of the person on the other end of the email. As long as you have patience and a little common sense, there is no reason to pay for a junk tune.
Jun 24, 2011, 05:59 AM
#13
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Well I agree it is not rocket science but for many people I speak to about tuning get very overwhelmed when they download their rom and see all the tables. Then look at the names of the tables and try to compare the name of the table with what they do know about their car. Most have no idea what they even mean outside of the standard ignition map and high oct map. So they rely on their pro tuners to give them a decent tune, and when they listen to the terms a tuner uses, and when they explain what they are doing they think they really know what is going on. Just to find out later on that they do not. Its sad that this is happening. I had a friend with an IS300 with a supra swap get a tune so bad that when the car was warm it wouldnt idle. What do you say about that? and he could get his money back.
Jun 24, 2011, 06:29 AM
#14
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Aside from the obvious "the car won't run" or "IT"S PEGGING THE KNOCK COUNTER LET OFF LET OFF!!!" what makes for a "bad tune" I know once upon a time I posted a hideous ignition map but what else can you do wrong in a tune?
Jun 24, 2011, 06:47 AM
#15
Evolved Member
poor driveability, inconsistent driving characteristics, over/under fueling whether it's gross or minor (can cause immediate, or long term issues) ..... just a couple