Mr_G

Thats what it was set too when I had it tuned after the injectors and rail were installed... Should I be re-doing the scaling and going from there? The Fuel pressure has also got a base of 42psi as an aftermarket FPR was placed in too.

FYI, the injector test sheet indicated a flow rate of 981cc on each injector @ 45psi. According to this thread https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...erge.html,post #1 FIC 950's scalings are

Scaling: 812

Latency:
3.312
2.184
1.32
1.008
0.768
0.624
0.504

Have attached an initial cold start idle log and also a warm start idle log now with Wideband from logging today

RazorLab

iTrader: (8)

You are on E85 right? What's 30% of 812?

l2r99gst

iTrader: (2)

Yep, realized you were talking about the wideband afterwards. It would be good to get that data.

The 02 sensor would bounce around .45 or so...up and down. So, it would go from like .1 to .9, back and forth, back and forth. The average would be around .45-.50 or so. That's what closed loop operation is. Then whatever the STFT is, that would be pushed into the LTFTs.

Your front O2 is pegged rich (+25%). So your LTFTs never even have a chance to establish because your fueling is so far off, or your front O2 isn't working. But seeing that you're on E85, I would guess that your injector scaling needs to be more in the neighborhood of 600ish.

But what confuses me is that you said, in your initial post, that your cruise AFR is like 12-13. So, that's oppposite of what I would expect.

This is what I would suggest for a quick test: Set your injector scaling around 600 or so...keep your closed loop settings stock, and do some idle and cruise, and post the log. You should see your STFT come down a lot and the LTFTs eventually start registering. Your cold start idle AFR should be closer to stoich as well.

Edit: Just took a quick look at your new log and it agrees with my suggested test above. Your AFRs at cold start (open loop) are lean, like 18, and during warm start when closed loop is active, the STFT is around +20, bringing your AFRs to stoich. So, that is saying you need like +20% more fuel. So, do the injector scaling thing and report back.

Mr_G

Thanks for letting me know what to test.

Ok so basically I copied over my current map in use and changed the injector scaling to 650 under 'Main Map Fuel Settings' and changed 'injector size scaling'

Did this about 1hr after I got home from work (Drove the evo) and loaded the new settings in.

Have attached 3 logs.

1) Initial start
2) Cruise about 2mins after initial start log
3) Once I reached somewhere and the car warmed up, logged the warm idle

Not too sure if I should be logging longer. Also to advise, the car drove better as it didnt feel as if it were 'starving for fuel'.

I accidently shut down evoscan (hard to log and drive same time) when the car started crusing around 12ish AFR on the wideband. This only appeared once car got close to if not on the operating temperature.

l2r99gst

iTrader: (2)

OK, Mr. G, I'm 95% sure I know what your problem is: It's a dead front O2 or it's disabled in the ROM (I'll have to check that).

This is what's happening...Your new injector scaling is closer to what it needs to be (actually you should probably change it down to about 550 or so). The warmup logs show your AFR around 16ish or so, before closed loop kicks in. So, it's getting better/closer to stoich 14.7.

However, once you are fully warmed up and closed loop kicks in, since your front O2 is reading 0, your STFT pegs max rich at +25%. So, your ECU starts dumping 25% more fuel. Then, your AFR climbs to the 12.5 or so.

To test if this is true, you can do the following:

1. Set your car to run full time open loop again
2. Set your injector scaling to about 550.
3. Look at your wideband for your warmup idle and cruise and see if it stays closer to a stoich 14.7 now (may not be exact until the actual exact injector scaling is dialed in...may not be 550)

If that pans out, then we have to find out why your front O2 is always reading 0. It's either dead (needs replacement) or it may be disabled in the ROM (I think I remember reading somehwere that if you disabled the rear o2 in the periphery, it disabled the front o2 or fuel trims, etc). I'll check your ROM to mine to see what's different.

Edit: Did a quick check of your peripheries against mine and yours are way different (probably a good 10-20 are set differently). The XMLs I have on this computer aren't defined well for the peripheries, so I can't tell if one of your settings are causing your front O2 not to read, but that's something to look into before replacing it. I know one of them controls it, from what I remember.

evl08

iTrader: (2)

What do you mean when you say it's hard to log and drive? Start your car, start logging, close laptop, put laptop on passenger side footwell, drive around till you're finished logging.

I can't read your log on my phone, but you should be aiming to get you ltft low and mid as close to zero as possible. For the ltft to settle after your scaling changes you need to be driving for at least 30 mins or so at a constant-ish cruise load. Or, you can combine the stft and ltft value at any time after the engine is warm at idle to get an idea on how the trims are doing.

Reading this thread may help your understanding of what needs to be done https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...upermerge.html

I also recommend the how to tune an evo in the sticky section as well as the tuning guide compiled by merlin.

It does take a while to learn how to tune properly and learning as you go with your level of mods and e85 seems a bit risky to me. Im not trying to discourage you from learning and tuning your car, I just think you may be better off getting a pro to tune the car for now. Once the tune is sorted you could then do logging and make changes to see what effect it has on the tune and continue with your learning.

Mr_G

Hi l2r99gst,

Thanks for being patient and helping me out on this one. Im not too sure whats going on with the front 02, but it may be worthwhile to tune the car to full time open loop once we work out the issue and after a rescale of the inejctors.

So after reading your post, I went and done the following for the test:

1) Rescaled my injectors to 552
2) Changed both open loop load 1 and 2 thresholds down to 30 between 1000rpm - 3500rpm (Forcing it to stay in open loop by not crossing into the closed loop)
3) Changed both open loop throttle 1 and 2 thresholds down to 10 between 500 - 3500rpm (Forcing it to stay in open loop by not crossing into the closed loop)

Loaded the rom, and initially it was around 3 points richer than the last testing on startup. Most of the drive, the AFR didnt bounce around, but sat around the same point (Hovered around 13's

Have attached a log which includes warm up, cruise, freeway for a little (60 mph) and also a warm idle after the test run on the settings.

Cheers!

Edit: Sorry, had to split the main log in 2 given the zip exceeded the threshold

l2r99gst

iTrader: (2)

The warm idle log didn't have the AFR in it. Do you remember what it was?

Also, I see the leanest your log shows for wideband (during coasting injector cut) is 18.4. Is that what your wideband gauge shows in the car while coasting down? I want to make sure you have the formula correct for your wideband.

After those two answers, I think we can nail down the injector scaling.

l2r99gst

iTrader: (2)

Just to save you a little time in case the wideband is reading right in the logs and your idle AFR is the same as in the first log (around 13 or so), then the next step would be to set your injector scaling to about 610. Then log again.

Mr_G

This was on Decel when the car was hitting 18.4

I think the USB came unplugged when I logged warm idle, but it was hovering between 12.8 - 13.2.

Will load in 610 for the morning on the same map and report back tomorrow evening when I get back from work with some logs

l2r99gst

iTrader: (2)

Yes, I understand that. I was just asking if that agrees with your gauge in the car. Does that also say 18.4? Just trying to be sure the AFR data in the log is accurate.

Mr_G

The AEM wideband only goes to 18 before not displaying a number. So it sounds about right at 18.4 on decel.

More logging this evening (Your morning) when I get back from work. Currently the car is hovering around the 15 AFR and bare cold start was noticeably richer this morning.

Mr_G

Ok so ive done 2 logs. I didnt get the scaling to 610 but had it at 612. Car is still running into forced open loop. Im assuming this is why my STFT doesnt register?

Logs attached include

1) Cold start in the morning
2) Warm start 2hrs after driving the car, and some cruising around

The AFR's are pretty stable and barely variate. This has definitely been more stable than previous and feels alot safer to drive when cold. I dont get anymore bucking when the car is cold cause it actually has fuel now but overall, the idle has become better and doesnt hunt all over the place.

l2r99gst

iTrader: (2)

OK, things looks a ton better now. Still needs some fine tuning, but I think that's your final injector scaling to settle on.

Yes, your STFT and fuel trims won't register when running in open loop. I personally would recommend running open loop, as it will account for the little variations in fueling needed, but you have to figure out what's wrong with your front O2 first (physically dead or disabled in the ROM).

For now, though, you can stay in open loop and fine tune from there. That way, if you ever do turn on closed loop, your trims should be pretty much spot on and good to go.

So from here, just tuning. If your staying in open loop, my recommendation would be to do some steady cruising at various RPM and record the airflow and AFR. Use your MAF smoothing table to adjust for anything significantly off from 14.7. For example I saw in one of your logs where it looked like you were at steady throttle at about 200Hz and your AFR was like 12.5 or something. Just use the 200Hz cell, adjust to a lower number, and log again. You can use that method for various Hz ranges where little tweaking is needed.

Besides that though, it looks like you're good to go.

Mr_G

Thanks so much for all your help on this. My cold start is definitely tons better and makes alot of diference. No more embarrassing hoping around looking like I cant drive manual when I leave the office I will be leaving it in full time open loop as it looks easier to tune this way.

Regarding the MAF scaling, definitely needs to be done as you sometimes get odd numbers like you said. Basically am I just looking for irregularities at certain RPM between the Wideband AFR and also the Air Flow Hz? i.e. If the Hz is at 200, the RPM is at 2500 and the AFR may suddenly go to 12.5 when it mainly averages 14.7, then I scale it down slightly in the 'Maf Scaling' under global fuel settings? Should I also be comparing adding the TPS into the equation to ensure its at the same position? When would you increment the change in the certain cell? And what is considered as a significant AFR drop, 1 full point, .5 points etc?

May not get much changes done this weekend given World Time Attack is on down in Aus this weekend