Flashing an Airtrek Turbo
Apr 28, 2013, 03:45 PM
#107
The new xml for 89970010 should be able to be accessed from the below link. Let me know of any issues.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_Oy...it?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_Oy...it?usp=sharing
Apr 28, 2013, 06:10 PM
#108
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
My views on Boost control on Airtrek Turbo (should be similar to Evos)
This is how I THINK it MAY work - I would welcome any input, corrections or observations.
The main tables in play are:
Waste Gate Duty Cycle (WGDC) - 3 tables
This controls the amount of air reaching the Wastgate Actuator which in turn controls when the Wastegate opens.
Boost Desired Engine Load (BDEL) - 3 tables
This sets the load that the ECU wants to achieve via boost control.
The WGDC sets the baseline but these tables set the ideal / desired load to be achieved as a maximum.
Boost Control Load Offset (BCLO)
This is an amount that is added to the BDEL - for instance if the BCLO is 50 and the BDEL at a particular RPM is 150 then the ECU will try to achieve an
engine load of 200 as a maximum.
Turbo Boost Error Correction (TBEC)
This determines how much percentage adjustment is added to the WGDC to attempt to get closer to the BDEL, when the corect conditions exist. The % change is determined based on the percentage error.
Max Total Upward WGDC Correction vs. TPS (MUWC)
This table seems to determine the maximum amount of correction to be applied based on throttle position sensor (TPS). For instance, if the engine load is much lower than the BDEL but this table has 0 for the relevant throttle position then no correction is applied or if the required correction is higher than the maximum in the table then the correction is limited to the value in this table.
Boost Limit - 2 tables (Gear N, 1, 2) and (Gear 3, 4, 5)
This determines the engine load vs. RPM at which point the boost cut / fuel cut kicks in.
Boost Cut Delay Timer
This sets the time that elapses before the boost cut / fuel cut is applied
What this all means?
Now, I am having to figure this all out because I have fitted the Tactrix 3-Port BCS and a T04HL-19T Turbo.
When fitting the 3-Port the WGDC needs to drop but by how much?
Also, when fitting a turbo with more airflow (such as my 19T) then does the BDEL may need to be lowered as it flows more air for the same level of boost?
What SEEMS clear to me is that under normal driving conditions such as low TPS conditions, that the WGDC table controls boost and needs to be smooth to keep a nice constant boost level, however when the TPS is above certain limits (as defined in the MUWC) then the ECU will switch over to trying to achieve the BDEL.
This means that when you hit the throttle, the boost error correction, as defined in the TBEC, will be applied up to the maximum set in the MUWC but then revert to the boost curve determined by the WGDC when you back off the throttle.
This would seem logical (to me anyway) and I will test this once I can log it all (including boost) using the Evodroid.
I may be totally wrong but at present it seems to be about right but I need empirical evidence to validate...
Attached is also my view of a flowchart to help explain my thinking.
This is how I THINK it MAY work - I would welcome any input, corrections or observations.
The main tables in play are:
Waste Gate Duty Cycle (WGDC) - 3 tables
This controls the amount of air reaching the Wastgate Actuator which in turn controls when the Wastegate opens.
Boost Desired Engine Load (BDEL) - 3 tables
This sets the load that the ECU wants to achieve via boost control.
The WGDC sets the baseline but these tables set the ideal / desired load to be achieved as a maximum.
Boost Control Load Offset (BCLO)
This is an amount that is added to the BDEL - for instance if the BCLO is 50 and the BDEL at a particular RPM is 150 then the ECU will try to achieve an
engine load of 200 as a maximum.
Turbo Boost Error Correction (TBEC)
This determines how much percentage adjustment is added to the WGDC to attempt to get closer to the BDEL, when the corect conditions exist. The % change is determined based on the percentage error.
Max Total Upward WGDC Correction vs. TPS (MUWC)
This table seems to determine the maximum amount of correction to be applied based on throttle position sensor (TPS). For instance, if the engine load is much lower than the BDEL but this table has 0 for the relevant throttle position then no correction is applied or if the required correction is higher than the maximum in the table then the correction is limited to the value in this table.
Boost Limit - 2 tables (Gear N, 1, 2) and (Gear 3, 4, 5)
This determines the engine load vs. RPM at which point the boost cut / fuel cut kicks in.
Boost Cut Delay Timer
This sets the time that elapses before the boost cut / fuel cut is applied
What this all means?
Now, I am having to figure this all out because I have fitted the Tactrix 3-Port BCS and a T04HL-19T Turbo.
When fitting the 3-Port the WGDC needs to drop but by how much?
Also, when fitting a turbo with more airflow (such as my 19T) then does the BDEL may need to be lowered as it flows more air for the same level of boost?
What SEEMS clear to me is that under normal driving conditions such as low TPS conditions, that the WGDC table controls boost and needs to be smooth to keep a nice constant boost level, however when the TPS is above certain limits (as defined in the MUWC) then the ECU will switch over to trying to achieve the BDEL.
This means that when you hit the throttle, the boost error correction, as defined in the TBEC, will be applied up to the maximum set in the MUWC but then revert to the boost curve determined by the WGDC when you back off the throttle.
This would seem logical (to me anyway) and I will test this once I can log it all (including boost) using the Evodroid.
I may be totally wrong but at present it seems to be about right but I need empirical evidence to validate...
Attached is also my view of a flowchart to help explain my thinking.
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OzAirtrek (Dec 13, 2017)
Apr 29, 2013, 01:24 AM
#109
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Auckland - NEW ZEALAND
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Reason I'm sticking with the TD04 is that I need to pay someone to do the mods. I have no experience with working on cars. Labor alone would cost $1.6k. Then there's the tuning. Don't know how to do that either. Getting a friend on MAC to help me out with it. Also, since it spools earlier its of more use for me as I drive around town. Also, I spoke to a gearbox guy. He said the gearsets in the trek are prone to failure. Rebuilds are expensive (quoted 3k-4k). So makes more sense in the long run in terms of wear and tear. He might be wrong, but again, he has a point. Not sure how much power the box can handle as a max so keeping on the safe side seems to be a good idea.
Apr 29, 2013, 01:31 AM
#110
The problem with the Airtrek gearbox is insufficient cooling of the oil. Every Airtrek including standard ones should have a 2nd oil cooler fitted. Mine cruising on the open road, no boost, just cruising was over 110c. At 120c the oil is stuffed!!
I have no mechanical back ground either, but I read, take a chance and sometimes stuff up. When I put the LSD in the front of my Airtrek, I stuffed up and damaged a seal. The whole transfer case was stuffed. It cost me money for a new one, but I've learn't alot and won't be making that mistake again.
I have no mechanical back ground either, but I read, take a chance and sometimes stuff up. When I put the LSD in the front of my Airtrek, I stuffed up and damaged a seal. The whole transfer case was stuffed. It cost me money for a new one, but I've learn't alot and won't be making that mistake again.
Apr 29, 2013, 02:04 AM
#111
Hi Greg, hope everything is going good 
Where did u install a temp reader for the trans oil? Also does anyone know of a good location for a second oil cooler (i have aircon)? I can see the install would be ok, as you can just use the current connections into the radiator, this also means a drop in rad temperature to!
I am finding the oil return still a ***** to line up on my turbo no. 3 haha (evo 8 MR) should be interesting to see the response and power difference to the evo 5 td05....
Hey Greg, how different is the new xml file compared to the one you gave me, some new features you found?
Where did u install a temp reader for the trans oil? Also does anyone know of a good location for a second oil cooler (i have aircon)? I can see the install would be ok, as you can just use the current connections into the radiator, this also means a drop in rad temperature to!
I am finding the oil return still a ***** to line up on my turbo no. 3 haha (evo 8 MR) should be interesting to see the response and power difference to the evo 5 td05....
Hey Greg, how different is the new xml file compared to the one you gave me, some new features you found?
Last edited by poachersun; Apr 29, 2013 at 02:05 AM. Reason: Ask add questions
Apr 29, 2013, 02:10 AM
#112
There are differing opinions on if the oil temp should be read coming out of the gearbox or in. As far as I'm concerned, you should read it coming out as thats the hottest it will be.
The oil comes out of the gearbox into the bottom of the radiator. Pull that hose off and fit the sensor before the radiator.
As for the 2nd oil cooler, I fitted mine up in front of the radiator, easy place to mount there as I have no aircon. I'm pretty sure I ran mine between the radiator and the factory oil cooler.
I had about a 30c drop in oil temps with the 2nd cooler.
I had the same issue with the oil return, I cut mine and put some hose there initially, but eventually bought some fittings and now run pushlock AN fittings and hose there.
The oil comes out of the gearbox into the bottom of the radiator. Pull that hose off and fit the sensor before the radiator.
As for the 2nd oil cooler, I fitted mine up in front of the radiator, easy place to mount there as I have no aircon. I'm pretty sure I ran mine between the radiator and the factory oil cooler.
I had about a 30c drop in oil temps with the 2nd cooler.
I had the same issue with the oil return, I cut mine and put some hose there initially, but eventually bought some fittings and now run pushlock AN fittings and hose there.
Apr 29, 2013, 02:24 AM
#113
Scaling 504
Latency
4.69 = 6.12
7.03 = 2.784
9.38 = 1.488
11.72 = 1.440
14.06 = 1.008
16.41 = 0.696
18.68 = 0.096
How did you figure out the scaling to your specific injectors? I really gotta get my tuner mate to have a decent look at my tune it's a bit messy....
Apr 29, 2013, 02:27 AM
#114
I was given it by someone else, but used that as a base to start with. The scaling on my current set of STI injectors is different again. Its trail and error, do 20 minutes of idle and 20 minutes of cruise and see where your trims sit. Find a copy of Merlins guide for the Evo 7-9 and that covers how to do this.
Apr 29, 2013, 02:28 AM
#115
There are differing opinions on if the oil temp should be read coming out of the gearbox or in. As far as I'm concerned, you should read it coming out as thats the hottest it will be.
The oil comes out of the gearbox into the bottom of the radiator. Pull that hose off and fit the sensor before the radiator.
As for the 2nd oil cooler, I fitted mine up in front of the radiator, easy place to mount there as I have no aircon. I'm pretty sure I ran mine between the radiator and the factory oil cooler.
I had about a 30c drop in oil temps with the 2nd cooler.
I had the same issue with the oil return, I cut mine and put some hose there initially, but eventually bought some fittings and now run pushlock AN fittings and hose there.
The oil comes out of the gearbox into the bottom of the radiator. Pull that hose off and fit the sensor before the radiator.
As for the 2nd oil cooler, I fitted mine up in front of the radiator, easy place to mount there as I have no aircon. I'm pretty sure I ran mine between the radiator and the factory oil cooler.
I had about a 30c drop in oil temps with the 2nd cooler.
I had the same issue with the oil return, I cut mine and put some hose there initially, but eventually bought some fittings and now run pushlock AN fittings and hose there.
I am gonna cut the pipe tomorrow night after failing at running threaded rod to try line it up instead of bolts
. will get some LOLA? piping to join it, i don't want to remove the top connection as i can't get my hands up there to the bottom of the turbo, and i am not keen to take the turbo out! :S.really wanna drive it again my upgrades which are supposed to take 4 hours always end up taking a week or longer lol.
Apr 29, 2013, 03:09 AM
#117
btw i check out that new xml, i found a couple of double ups (fuel cut at rpm and speed cut)
Also i looked everywhere and can't find boost fuel cut?
Apr 29, 2013, 03:30 AM
#118
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
Reason I'm sticking with the TD04 is that I need to pay someone to do the mods. I have no experience with working on cars. Labor alone would cost $1.6k. Then there's the tuning. Don't know how to do that either. Getting a friend on MAC to help me out with it. Also, since it spools earlier its of more use for me as I drive around town. Also, I spoke to a gearbox guy. He said the gearsets in the trek are prone to failure. Rebuilds are expensive (quoted 3k-4k). So makes more sense in the long run in terms of wear and tear. He might be wrong, but again, he has a point. Not sure how much power the box can handle as a max so keeping on the safe side seems to be a good idea.
I think I have got mine about right, boosts about 8-9psi until you plant it and then it quickly boosts to 18psi and goes like a scalded cat (relative to what it was) there is still a lot more to tune if I really wanted to but until I can hook up my WBO2 and the MAP sensor to the long awaited Evodroid then I am playing it safe.
Apr 29, 2013, 10:52 PM
#119
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
My views on Boost control on Airtrek Turbo (should be similar to Evos)
This is how I THINK it MAY work - I would welcome any input, corrections or observations.
The main tables in play are:
Waste Gate Duty Cycle (WGDC) - 3 tables
This controls the amount of air reaching the Wastgate Actuator which in turn controls when the Wastegate opens.
Boost Desired Engine Load (BDEL) - 3 tables
This sets the load that the ECU wants to achieve via boost control.
The WGDC sets the baseline but these tables set the ideal / desired load to be achieved as a maximum.
Boost Control Load Offset (BCLO)
This is an amount that is added to the BDEL - for instance if the BCLO is 50 and the BDEL at a particular RPM is 150 then the ECU will try to achieve an
engine load of 200 as a maximum.
Turbo Boost Error Correction (TBEC)
This determines how much percentage adjustment is added to the WGDC to attempt to get closer to the BDEL, when the corect conditions exist. The % change is determined based on the percentage error.
Max Total Upward WGDC Correction vs. TPS (MUWC)
This table seems to determine the maximum amount of correction to be applied based on throttle position sensor (TPS). For instance, if the engine load is much lower than the BDEL but this table has 0 for the relevant throttle position then no correction is applied or if the required correction is higher than the maximum in the table then the correction is limited to the value in this table.
Boost Limit - 2 tables (Gear N, 1, 2) and (Gear 3, 4, 5)
This determines the engine load vs. RPM at which point the boost cut / fuel cut kicks in.
Boost Cut Delay Timer
This sets the time that elapses before the boost cut / fuel cut is applied
What this all means?
Now, I am having to figure this all out because I have fitted the Tactrix 3-Port BCS and a T04HL-19T Turbo.
When fitting the 3-Port the WGDC needs to drop but by how much?
Also, when fitting a turbo with more airflow (such as my 19T) then does the BDEL may need to be lowered as it flows more air for the same level of boost?
What SEEMS clear to me is that under normal driving conditions such as low TPS conditions, that the WGDC table controls boost and needs to be smooth to keep a nice constant boost level, however when the TPS is above certain limits (as defined in the MUWC) then the ECU will switch over to trying to achieve the BDEL.
This means that when you hit the throttle, the boost error correction, as defined in the TBEC, will be applied up to the maximum set in the MUWC but then revert to the boost curve determined by the WGDC when you back off the throttle.
This would seem logical (to me anyway) and I will test this once I can log it all (including boost) using the Evodroid.
I may be totally wrong but at present it seems to be about right but I need empirical evidence to validate...
Attached is also my view of a flowchart to help explain my thinking.
This is how I THINK it MAY work - I would welcome any input, corrections or observations.
The main tables in play are:
Waste Gate Duty Cycle (WGDC) - 3 tables
This controls the amount of air reaching the Wastgate Actuator which in turn controls when the Wastegate opens.
Boost Desired Engine Load (BDEL) - 3 tables
This sets the load that the ECU wants to achieve via boost control.
The WGDC sets the baseline but these tables set the ideal / desired load to be achieved as a maximum.
Boost Control Load Offset (BCLO)
This is an amount that is added to the BDEL - for instance if the BCLO is 50 and the BDEL at a particular RPM is 150 then the ECU will try to achieve an
engine load of 200 as a maximum.
Turbo Boost Error Correction (TBEC)
This determines how much percentage adjustment is added to the WGDC to attempt to get closer to the BDEL, when the corect conditions exist. The % change is determined based on the percentage error.
Max Total Upward WGDC Correction vs. TPS (MUWC)
This table seems to determine the maximum amount of correction to be applied based on throttle position sensor (TPS). For instance, if the engine load is much lower than the BDEL but this table has 0 for the relevant throttle position then no correction is applied or if the required correction is higher than the maximum in the table then the correction is limited to the value in this table.
Boost Limit - 2 tables (Gear N, 1, 2) and (Gear 3, 4, 5)
This determines the engine load vs. RPM at which point the boost cut / fuel cut kicks in.
Boost Cut Delay Timer
This sets the time that elapses before the boost cut / fuel cut is applied
What this all means?
Now, I am having to figure this all out because I have fitted the Tactrix 3-Port BCS and a T04HL-19T Turbo.
When fitting the 3-Port the WGDC needs to drop but by how much?
Also, when fitting a turbo with more airflow (such as my 19T) then does the BDEL may need to be lowered as it flows more air for the same level of boost?
What SEEMS clear to me is that under normal driving conditions such as low TPS conditions, that the WGDC table controls boost and needs to be smooth to keep a nice constant boost level, however when the TPS is above certain limits (as defined in the MUWC) then the ECU will switch over to trying to achieve the BDEL.
This means that when you hit the throttle, the boost error correction, as defined in the TBEC, will be applied up to the maximum set in the MUWC but then revert to the boost curve determined by the WGDC when you back off the throttle.
This would seem logical (to me anyway) and I will test this once I can log it all (including boost) using the Evodroid.
I may be totally wrong but at present it seems to be about right but I need empirical evidence to validate...
Attached is also my view of a flowchart to help explain my thinking.
Also, the Wastegate Solenoid Activation RPM table seems to do nothing... From what I have read no-one seems to understand what this does (although in theory it seems straight forward)
