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The fuel filter is built into the fuel pump carrier (the white thing that holds the fuel pump).
That's what I thought. So when people talk of replacing the fuel filter, are they suggesting the sock, or the entire white carrier?
More than likely the fuel pump is loosing capacity as it heats up.
I would agree if it was a single pump. The Walbro 255 was in there 2 months ago when I started to realize there was an issue, It is still good resistance wise, and was still pumping the day I took it out. Same symptoms. Replaced it with the Deatschwerks 320 and symptoms continue. SO I have a hard time believing that two fuel pumps have the same issue internally. Also, over heating would recommend to much current? The pump struggles in low pressure mode to maintain 8V. It averages 7.4V Am, I missing something?
Extremely bad news: I was testing relay 1 and 2 with my tester. Car was running. Relay 1 tested good on voltage and resistance while running. Relay 2 tested the same. SO I decided to do a current test. I had a brain fart and forgot that doing a current test on a relay actually bypasses the relay and send voltage and current down the wire to the end of the circuit. I accidently shorted lead 3/2 to 4 on relay 2. Current registered at 500mA for 5-10 seconds before car shut off. Unfortunately, no matter what I do, and tested circuit, car is dead. Turns over and cranks, but no go. I tested circuit from battery through fuse 1 in engine, through to fuse 2 ignition, to fuel relay 1, to fuel relay 2, all voltage and fuses and relays check to here. Tested voltage at the pump, dead. No voltage what so ever. I looked at schematic, and at the end of lead 4 is connection to fuel relay 3. at the end of lead 3 and 2 is voltage of 13V and the ECU. I have three theories: 1) I fried the fuel circuit on the ECU. 2)Fried Fuel Relay 3. 3)Fried the fuel resistor pack.
There is currently only 1 ECU in the entire country through Mitsubishi, cost $1200 + shipping. THat was a month ago when I called per suggestion then. If it sold, all ECU's going forth, are out of the US. Japan. 6 week turn around. No reliable used ones on line. I live in a town where there are only 3 EVO's known. Nothing in the yards in a 250 mile radius. Fuel Relay 3 costs about $150.00, through Mitsu, not sure of turn around. Fuel Resistor pack is estimated at $250.00. THis is on top of the original issue costs, which are yet to be determined.
Suggestions please. Thank you in advance.
Last edited by Raceghost; Aug 4, 2016 at 02:48 PM.
That's what I thought. So when people talk of replacing the fuel filter, are they suggesting the sock, or the entire white carrier?
I would agree if it was a single pump. The Walbro 255 was in there 2 months ago when I started to realize there was an issue, It is still good resistance wise, and was still pumping the day I took it out. Same symptoms. Replaced it with the Deatschwerks 320 and symptoms continue. SO I have a hard time believing that two fuel pumps have the same issue internally. Also, over heating would recommend to much current? The pump struggles in low pressure mode to maintain 8V. It averages 7.4V Am, I missing something?
Also, I have extremely bad news. I was testing relay 1 and 2 with my tester. Car was running. Relay 1 tested good on voltage and resistance while running. Relay 2 tested the same. SO I decided to do a current test. I had a brain fart and forgot that doing a current test on a relay actually bypasses the relay and send voltage and current down the wire to the end of the circuit. I accidently shorted lead 3/4 to 2 on relay 2. Current registered at 500mA for 5-10 seconds before car shut off. Unfortunately, no matter what I do, and tested circuit, car is dead. Turns over and cranks, but no go. I tested circuit from battery through fuse 1 in engine, through to fuse 2 ignition, to fuel relay 1, to fuel relay 2, all voltage and fuses and relays check to here. Tested voltage at the pump, dead. No voltage what so ever. I looked at schematic, and at the end of lead 2 is ground. at the end of lead 3 and 4 is voltage of 13V and the ECU. I have three theories: 1) I fried the fuel circuit on the ECU. 2)Fried Fuel Relay 3. 3)Fried the fuel resistor pack.
There is currently only 1 ECU in the entire country through Mitsubishi, cost $1200 + shipping. THat was a month ago when I called per suggestion then. If it sold, all ECU's going forth, are out of the US. Japan. 6 week turn around. No reliable used ones on line. I live in a town where there are only 3 EVO's known. Nothing in the yards in a 250 mile radius. Fuel Relay 3 costs about $150.00, through Mitsu, not sure of turn around. Fuel Resistor pack is estimated at $250.00. THis is on top of the original issue costs, which are yet to be determined.
Suggestions please. Thank you in advance.
Some questions for you:
1) Did you look at the fuse for the fuel pump circuit?
2) If yes, did you verify that you are seeing 12V at the power input side of relay #1?
3) If you turn the key to "on" without attempting to start the car, are you able to log any data with EvoScan?
1) Did you look at the fuse for the fuel pump circuit?
2) If yes, did you verify that you are seeing 12V at the power input side of relay #1?
3) If you turn the key to "on" without attempting to start the car, are you able to log any data with EvoScan?
Questions 1:
Which fuse is that? 20 amp in the engine compartment fuse block? Or is there another one hidden I do not know about?
Question 2:
I tested circuit from battery through fuse 1 in engine, through to fuse 2 ignition, to fuel relay 1, to fuel relay 2, all voltage and fuses and relays check to here.
I retested just a few minute's ago, same results.
I also tested ignition on voltage of Relay 3 and had no voltage on any of the 4 connectors. Connector to ground, or connector to connector. I am pretty sure that with ignition on it used to see 6-7 volts. Also tried starting car with 2 good relays in place of relay 1 and 2.
Question 3:
Key on, I can read/write/log ECU on tuning laptop. Tried loading with immobilizer disable(explain in a sec.), tried with a few things in ECU option switches in Rom, etc. Main ECU is not the problem so says Mitsubishi... I know we question any mitsubishi service center, but this tuner/old employee, said this to me below:
How many people know about the hidden ECU in EVO 8's? Never been discussed as far as I can tell, and rarely ever saved in a part out/crush situation.
This is referred to in the service side of Mitsubishi as the ETACS ECU. Parts people get a different part when they look it vs. what service centers refer to it as.
The Hidden ECU looks like a fuse panel. It's the orange and white module integrated into the in car driver side under dash fuse panel. The very fuse panel I was testing and had my tester directly integrated to. Turns out it controls several things, prior to the ECM/ECU we flash. It just so happens that Mitsubishi does not make it, or the engine bay front ECU any more. There are 0 ZERO in the world available, new. Most people don't know about it, and don't purchase from a part out/crush/yard situation, so they are very rare, an hard to come by in any situation. But lets say you get a hold of one. It takes a mitsubishi service center to read the specific one that is on your car, if not fried to the point of not being able to read, and write it to the new/used one, or car WILL NEVER START.
I have read about Tephra's patch software that is capable of doing MUTIII request's, but not sure what the actual capabilities are for doing what was told to me above. It looks also to only be available for the EVO X.
I am not 100% sure that this is what it is. I would like to explore all testing options mechanical and explore all software options of testing.
Thanks again MRFred, and I guess point me to everything.
Questions 1:
Which fuse is that? 20 amp in the engine compartment fuse block? Or is there another one hidden I do not know about?
Question 2:
I retested just a few minute's ago, same results.
I also tested ignition on voltage of Relay 3 and had no voltage on any of the 4 connectors. Connector to ground, or connector to connector. I am pretty sure that with ignition on it used to see 6-7 volts. Also tried starting car with 2 good relays in place of relay 1 and 2.
Question 3:
Key on, I can read/write/log ECU on tuning laptop. Tried loading with immobilizer disable(explain in a sec.), tried with a few things in ECU option switches in Rom, etc. Main ECU is not the problem so says Mitsubishi... I know we question any mitsubishi service center, but this tuner/old employee, said this to me below:
How many people know about the hidden ECU in EVO 8's? Never been discussed as far as I can tell, and rarely ever saved in a part out/crush situation.
This is referred to in the service side of Mitsubishi as the ETACS ECU. Parts people get a different part when they look it vs. what service centers refer to it as.
The Hidden ECU looks like a fuse panel. It's the orange and white module integrated into the in car driver side under dash fuse panel. The very fuse panel I was testing and had my tester directly integrated to. Turns out it controls several things, prior to the ECM/ECU we flash. It just so happens that Mitsubishi does not make it, or the engine bay front ECU any more. There are 0 ZERO in the world available, new. Most people don't know about it, and don't purchase from a part out/crush/yard situation, so they are very rare, an hard to come by in any situation. But lets say you get a hold of one. It takes a mitsubishi service center to read the specific one that is on your car, if not fried to the point of not being able to read, and write it to the new/used one, or car WILL NEVER START.
I have read about Tephra's patch software that is capable of doing MUTIII request's, but not sure what the actual capabilities are for doing what was told to me above. It looks also to only be available for the EVO X.
I am not 100% sure that this is what it is. I would like to explore all testing options mechanical and explore all software options of testing.
Thanks again MRFred, and I guess point me to everything.
I'm not sure I learned anything from what you wrote. Are you able to log in EvoScan with key "on"? Do you have the factory service manual? That will show you the correct fuse. There are PDF copies floating around.
I'm not sure I learned anything from what you wrote. Are you able to log in EvoScan with key "on"? Do you have the factory service manual? That will show you the correct fuse. There are PDF copies floating around.
YES. I can log things with EVOSCAN. I can flash with ECUFlash. I can read/write to ECM/ECU.
Tested known fuel fuse in engine compartment, 20 AMP fuse. Tested voltage at relay 1, 12V on both pin 1 and 3. Tested Relay 2, get 12V on Pin 3. Plugged (2) brand new relays into circuit for fuel pump relay 1 and 2. No start. Tested Relay 3 with key on, no voltage. I thought I remember it testing 6 volts with key on engine not running a month ago. ALL Leads on relay 3 wire dead. No voltage pin to pin, no voltage pin to ground.
YES. I can log things with EVOSCAN. I can flash with ECUFlash. I can read/write to ECM/ECU.
Tested known fuel fuse in engine compartment, 20 AMP fuse. Tested voltage at relay 1, 12V on both pin 1 and 3. Tested Relay 2, get 12V on Pin 3. Plugged (2) brand new relays into circuit for fuel pump relay 1 and 2. No start. Tested Relay 3 with key on, no voltage. I thought I remember it testing 6 volts with key on engine not running a month ago. ALL Leads on relay 3 wire dead. No voltage pin to pin, no voltage pin to ground.
I'm still a bit unsure of what happened, but you should be getting 12 V from the battery to the power side of relay #3 when the starter is cranking. If not, then something is fried upstream (towards the battery).
I'm still a bit unsure of what happened, but you should be getting 12 V from the battery to the power side of relay #3 when the starter is cranking. If not, then something is fried upstream (towards the battery).
Fuel circuit layout. Battery goes to 20 amp fuse in engine bay. 20 amp fuse goes to fuse block under dash. Fuse block houses Relay 1, which then drives Relay 2. Relay 2 goes to Etacs ECU on back side of fuse block and also Fuel Relay 3. Etacs ECU sends fuel circuit signal to ECM/ECU under glovebox. Signal then goes to Relay 3, then to fuel Resistor pack, then to fuel pump. I am assuming this is part of the immobilizer circuit.
I shorted lead 3 of relay 2 to to lead 4 of relay 2. Lead 3 has 14V on it and normally runs through lead 2 which connects to the Etacs ECU. This circuit is not grounded in this area. Lead 4 however, runs to Fuel Relay 3. I shorted these two circuits controlled by relay 2.
Mitsubishi thinks I fried the Etacs ECU. There is no fuse between lead 3/2 and Etacs. There is no fuse between lead 4 and fuel relay 3. I put 500MA and 14V across this short for 5-10 seconds...
I also tried to LOG a few more things with EVOScan last night, just to see what was actually logging.
All sensors that normally log when car is off seemed to read correct for comparison of other logs prior to this new issue.
However, Crank Position sensor would not log at all while ignition was on, and nor would it log anything when I tried to crank the motor over.
Also, the inhibitor switch remained at 0. Not sure what exactly this is, but by the implied thoughts is it the Immobilizer switch?
Also, prior to me shorting something out. The battery had a 39mA draw when car was completely off, all shutdown, doors closed, etc. It always was able to sit 12 hours and start with 12.65V to a running of 14V just after start.
The battery has started to drain, and is currently sitting at 11V. I know cranking as a little to do with it, but it seems way lower than anticipated for just sitting there.
I am still trying to figure a way to test anything I can, so I can pinpoint my situation. THe closest Mitsu dealer to me is approx 3 hours away, to do any sort of ETACS diagnostics. Car is dead, gonna take a lot to get it to that location. Would like to have an idea if that is exactly what I need to do, or if there is something in this circuit that I am missing and can replace.
I don't know at this point what you killed. Would be great if you could mark up the appropriate circuit diagrams from the factory service manual PDFs and post that to show what you accidentally grounded because I don't see any relationship between the ETACS ECU and the fuel system in my Evo 9 circuit diagrams.
Here is Image 1 schematic of what is said to be fuel circuit. I'm not so sure that this one is correct.
Here is Image 2 schematic, of which I am going off of. The connectors at teh bottom show pin outs and size, etc. These look to be the ETACS connections.
Using this Diagram, I shorted Lead 2/3 of Relay 2, to Lead 4 Relay 2. Lead 4 goes to Fuel Relay 3, and Lead 2/3 connect to ECU, though it doesn't say which one.
Mitsubishi referenced the same circuit in our discussion, and stated it goes to the ETACS Circuit. Which leads me to believe I need to reference the first image, not the one below.
The USDM Evo 8 service manual that I have does not show an "ETACS ECU". Instead, it is like yours except the box area is denoted as "Junction Box". In other circuit diagrams, it is indicated that the ETACS ECU is within the Junction Box. To me, it sounds like the ETACS-ECU plugs into the Junction Box, and without a doubt, the ETACS-ECU does not play a role in fuel pump operation.
At any rate, I was hoping that you'd actually draw on the lower diagram (or on the accompanying diagram #7 where relay #3 is shown) to show what you shorted out.
Jul 29, 2016, 11:40 PM
