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EVO X Barometric Parameters

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Old Jul 23, 2017, 06:42 AM   #16
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Well. Before this get's too stagnant could anyone give a few clarifications?
Please?


1) Still running a MBC. Boost hits 30psi and tapers off. I restricted the bleed port with a piece of tubing. Theory is build boost, boost controller opens. instead of bleeding off to the port it diverts more flow to the wastegate. This is temporary. But surging dramatically decreased and I retained the 'oomph'

2) I have an EBC map from my tuner. The boost map looks the same as my mbc map. MIVEC map look the same also. Is there a definitive guide to explain MIVEC timing? I see a lot of negative timing in them. The 'net is sparse for info.

3) Can you disassemble a rom to tell exactly which XML was used in a tune? Evoscan comes up with Golden 58010005. That's as much as my tuner would tell me. So, if a RAX patch, Tephra mod, etc were incorporated. How could you tell?

4) Boost for a Darton sleeved 2.0 4B11T. If boost can be run safely higher (not much) than 30psi, how do you keep the AWC/AWD system from freaking out? I've come to the conclusion that is the reason I was tripping the codes. Car was tuned at a low altitude, I live much higher.
I don't want to disable the DTC. That would kill the safety factor.

5) Perhaps I'm not versed enough for anyone to "get it". I'll try again.
If at 75% throttle at 2600rpm my car can handle.....26psi under "light" load (load to me is just that...not pulling a trailer for better sake). Without surging.


But at 75-100% ...throttle with high load at 26psi boost, it does surge. By 3000rpm's surge is completely gone.

What tuning process, methods would be used to tell the ECU "I'm at 80% gas pedal, I'm not running hard, I'm at 2800rpm's....and so we can handle.....28psi boost (EBC)
"And now I'm at 80% throttle at 2800rpm's but....let's say I hit the parking brake, tow a jet ski...and I'm pulling hard....I'll only give it 24psi boost (because we already know at 26psi it will surge.
Instead of a flat rpm/tps/boost will be...."curve".

These are the outlying issues I could surely need help on.
I have a good tune, but it needs tweaking. And my last tuner is a state and 5 1/2 hours away.
Please, Anyone??
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Old Jul 30, 2017, 09:19 AM   #17
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Try TSComptuned. he may be able to help out
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Old Sep 2, 2017, 04:42 PM   #18
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Okay. A follow up.
Checked for boost leaks today. None.
RAX is setup. Thanks Razorlab!
Strange boost characteristics. I can floor it in 5th and boost builds to no more than maybe 15 pounds. ***** out down the road.
Let off of the gas for a second and slam it down again. Boost shoots past 30.
Razor's fix doesn't trip the AYC message crap now. Cool.

I took the WG line off of the Cobb 3-port and ran a piece of tubing inside of the car.
Put a gauge on it.
WTF? When the solenoid starts pulsing with boost, the gauge goes up and stays there.

Tells me that pressure will stay in the wg can, keeping the wg open. Right?
No bleed off at all when the Defi drops towards zero or negative.

Popped the gauge off of the tubing (pressure relieved), blew in it. Boost comes out, no bleed off at all.
MBC (Grimmspeed) does have a bleed port.

Anyone think this is right?
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Old Sep 2, 2017, 04:48 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRC-LVR View Post
Try TSComptuned. he may be able to help out
I called 3 days. Left messages. BTW the vendor directory number is no good.
Googled it.
Called 2 other tuners in my state. A day or 2 off of work even if I did go.

If EBC is the way to go why is their opinion that mbc better on an X?

I could tune EBC now but with RAX loaded now the whole glossary of terms related to the tutorials is gibberish. Hence my other posts.
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Old Sep 4, 2017, 10:02 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlo View Post
Okay. A follow up.
Checked for boost leaks today. None.
RAX is setup. Thanks Razorlab!
Strange boost characteristics. I can floor it in 5th and boost builds to no more than maybe 15 pounds. ***** out down the road.
Let off of the gas for a second and slam it down again. Boost shoots past 30.
Razor's fix doesn't trip the AYC message crap now. Cool.

I took the WG line off of the Cobb 3-port and ran a piece of tubing inside of the car.
Put a gauge on it.
WTF? When the solenoid starts pulsing with boost, the gauge goes up and stays there.

Tells me that pressure will stay in the wg can, keeping the wg open. Right?
No bleed off at all when the Defi drops towards zero or negative.

Popped the gauge off of the tubing (pressure relieved), blew in it. Boost comes out, no bleed off at all.
MBC (Grimmspeed) does have a bleed port.

Anyone think this is right?
Followup:

Cobb Stage 3 was bought from a guy who drove in the winter and totaled his car.
The boost not bleeding? Got looking. Took the solenoid out and benched it. 12 volts on the connector and no click. Took it apart, cleaned it. The spring was on the wrong side of the plunger. It's right now. Looked at the manufacturers site for a breakdown.

Now I have good boost. Brought the WGDC down to 99.5% at WOT in the last columns to bleed off boost to 28psi. That was where the MBC peaked and then tapered off at.

Same situation when I lift off and slam the gas down where I was at WOT at 3500rpm. Pushing it down slower and everything is cool.
I get overboost if I don't pull back on the pedal.
Anyone? Which table to adjust to prevent that?

I'll grab a log.
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Old Sep 8, 2017, 06:55 AM   #21
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Still having this issue?
Is 100% MAX boost? or is 100% Low boost?
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Old Sep 8, 2017, 12:04 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WickWhiteEvox View Post
Still having this issue?
Is 100% MAX boost? or is 100% Low boost?
Just did a run this morning with my 'latest greatest' tune from my tuner.
It took over 10 days to get a reply. Seems par for my tuner experiences.
I'm open for pm's. Anyway my log is attached here.

I took the tune and applied RAX v2 to it, flashed to the car.
I can explain the scenario in detail. But the problem remains.

Floor it like you're going to pass a car....
Oops, not yet....let off the gas. Boost was a little low for what was expected.
Ok now, safe to pass (2-3 seconds pass)...floor it fast.
Boost builds very fast and I see the gauge hit over 30psi (it would have gone much higher if I didn't let off it)

Peek at the log. What is the secret to making the car build boost like it did on the 2nd 100% APP but being able to adjust WGDC and keep it from going over 30psi?

I'm stumped.
Attached Files
File Type: csv EvoScanDataLog_2017.09.08_11.21.44_Spike.csv (117.1 KB, 0 views)
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Old Sep 8, 2017, 12:11 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WickWhiteEvox View Post
Still having this issue?
Is 100% MAX boost? or is 100% Low boost?
0% in the table would mean the WG would get 100% manifold pressure.
100% would let just the WG spring hold the WG shut.
On Ecuflash. Right?
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Old Sep 8, 2017, 02:17 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlo View Post
Just did a run this morning with my 'latest greatest' tune from my tuner.
It took over 10 days to get a reply. Seems par for my tuner experiences.
I'm open for pm's. Anyway my log is attached here.

I took the tune and applied RAX v2 to it, flashed to the car.
I can explain the scenario in detail. But the problem remains.

Floor it like you're going to pass a car....
Oops, not yet....let off the gas. Boost was a little low for what was expected.
Ok now, safe to pass (2-3 seconds pass)...floor it fast.
Boost builds very fast and I see the gauge hit over 30psi (it would have gone much higher if I didn't let off it)

Peek at the log. What is the secret to making the car build boost like it did on the 2nd 100% APP but being able to adjust WGDC and keep it from going over 30psi?

I'm stumped.
Your boost control is set up wrong. Correction is super strong -50 negative on the first bit and then no correction to upward correction on the second bit. I bet you have something setup incorrectly and the boost control tables are probably also crap.

I'd find a new tuner.

Btw, here is our log on datazap, which makes it easier for others to view. http://datazap.me/u/razorlab/arlo?lo...-17-18&solo=17
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Old Sep 8, 2017, 03:03 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razorlab View Post
Your boost control is set up wrong. Correction is super strong -50 negative on the first bit and then no correction to upward correction on the second bit. I bet you have something setup incorrectly and the boost control tables are probably also crap.

I'd find a new tuner.

Btw, here is our log on datazap, which makes it easier for others to view. http://datazap.me/u/razorlab/arlo?lo...-17-18&solo=17
2 questions. Would taking the bin file and applying the RAX patch by selecting the proper last 9 RAX settings per the instructions and flashing the ecu do this?

From my logs what do you see that would do what I'm experiencing?

I'd like to believe that my current tuner is as good as other's I've called said he is.
The tune is aggressive yes, but so was my IX MR.
I'm eager to learn. I set TBEC as everyone says to when tuning WGDC to check what would happen. Although different performance the throttle double-hit overboost was still there. Is this caused from settings in a single table or multiple ones screwing things up?

Thanks!
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EVO X Barometric Parameters-boost-error-corr.jpg   EVO X Barometric Parameters-btel.jpg   EVO X Barometric Parameters-wgdc.jpg  
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Old Sep 8, 2017, 03:12 PM   #26
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the fact that it is doing -50 correction means something is wrong. Also your boost tables are crap if it's 100% in the last two columns with a 3port and the load targets are all maxed out at 159.

Send me your latest ROM and I can try to help, you know my email.
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Old Sep 13, 2017, 07:04 AM   #27
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Razorlab is awesome. My car is running better than it ever has from 2 dyno tunes.
All from looking at logs. Right now 1-4th is great and boost levels are consistent, and up there.
In 5th when it's floored I'm getting an oscillation that is like I pull the gas back a little and floor it again.
Boost fluctuates with it. If I had a few tips of what would cause it, leaning the reason why would be enlightening. And things to try to fix it from others experience would be awesome.
Any ideas guys?
Attached Files
File Type: csv EvoScanDataLog_2017.09.12_14.12.53.csv (146.8 KB, 0 views)
File Type: csv EvoScanDataLog_2017.09.12_14.12.26.csv (190.7 KB, 0 views)
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Old Sep 20, 2017, 01:55 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlo View Post
Razorlab is awesome. My car is running better than it ever has from 2 dyno tunes.
All from looking at logs. Right now 1-4th is great and boost levels are consistent, and up there.
In 5th when it's floored I'm getting an oscillation that is like I pull the gas back a little and floor it again.
Boost fluctuates with it. If I had a few tips of what would cause it, leaning the reason why would be enlightening. And things to try to fix it from others experience would be awesome.
Any ideas guys?
Hiya.

Yes, razorlab is top class.

The oscillation looks like it's due to your boost control's error correction setup.

I'm guessing your boost target is around 25psi.

When boost drops below 25psi, the ECU is told to increase its error correction (EC) percentage. It does this by adding an amount to the EC value. For example,

- If at 24psi, add 1% to EC.
- If at 23psi, add 2% to EC.

The converse is also set up, so above 25psi, the ECU is told to reduce its EC percentage, eg.

- If at 26psi, subtract 1% from EC.
- If at 27psi, subtract 2% from EC.


The problem is that this isn't set up quite right for your car.

The percentage addition/subtraction increments look too large, and/or get applied too frequently. The upshot is, the boost level is overshooting the target - in both directions.

Boost error correction is a feedback loop, and this behaviour is often called "ringing".


There are a bunch of ways to fix this...

(1) Use smaller step values in the "Target Boost Error Correction" table.
(2) Use a larger interval value in "Reactive Solenoid WGDC Correction Interval (High Gear Range)".
(3) Upgrade from RAX Patch v2 to RAX Patch v3, which has "Smart EC" mode.

The third one is something I added to RAX Patch because I was sick of seeing boost targets overshot. It adds an extra bit of logic to the EC "addition" code, so the ECU is only allowed to increase the EC percentage value if boost levels are falling. If they are steady or rising, it won't crank up the EC value.


I can flip your ROM from RAX v2 to v3 if you want, if you're not confident doing that. PM'd you.

Rich
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