Disappearing Tephramod V7 Speed Density
Mar 13, 2019, 10:08 AM
#16
I figured it was something simple. I have attached my TephraMOD-88590715-v7.XML file as I have already added all the other stuff you will want. Mine is the base XML plus a bunch of other tables. It has the 2 tables for the RPM Hang fix, a bunch of ISCV tables for idle and cold start, non-linear injector compensation, coil dwell, plus a few others.
Thanks man, I appreciate that. I will download and add it to my XML library.
The main task I plan to tackle is a cold drive issue. The car starts fine, but doesn't like to be driven over 2700rpm until it is warm (2 to 3 minutes), otherwise it will stumble and buck. My thoughts were that it had to do with the front o2 sensor not being warm enough to work properly. I was thinking one solution would be to keep the car in open loop, without relying on o2 feedback until it is warm.
The second issue just has to do with feathering the throttle during cruise in the lower gears. If I slightly rest my foot on the gas in 3rd for example, the car doesn't know whether to accelerate or coast. It just does a little of both causing the car to drive like it's stopping and going very slightly.
As you can see these are first world problems lol. I want to be able to jump in the car and drive it smoothely while it's warming up regardless of temperature. It's a lot to ask for on speed density, FIC 2150cc and R2 cams, but I think it's possible.
Mar 13, 2019, 12:42 PM
#17
Thanks man, I appreciate that. I will download and add it to my XML library.
The main task I plan to tackle is a cold drive issue. The car starts fine, but doesn't like to be driven over 2700rpm until it is warm (2 to 3 minutes), otherwise it will stumble and buck. My thoughts were that it had to do with the front o2 sensor not being warm enough to work properly. I was thinking one solution would be to keep the car in open loop, without relying on o2 feedback until it is warm.
The second issue just has to do with feathering the throttle during cruise in the lower gears. If I slightly rest my foot on the gas in 3rd for example, the car doesn't know whether to accelerate or coast. It just does a little of both causing the car to drive like it's stopping and going very slightly.
As you can see these are first world problems lol. I want to be able to jump in the car and drive it smoothely while it's warming up regardless of temperature. It's a lot to ask for on speed density, FIC 2150cc and R2 cams, but I think it's possible.
The main task I plan to tackle is a cold drive issue. The car starts fine, but doesn't like to be driven over 2700rpm until it is warm (2 to 3 minutes), otherwise it will stumble and buck. My thoughts were that it had to do with the front o2 sensor not being warm enough to work properly. I was thinking one solution would be to keep the car in open loop, without relying on o2 feedback until it is warm.
The second issue just has to do with feathering the throttle during cruise in the lower gears. If I slightly rest my foot on the gas in 3rd for example, the car doesn't know whether to accelerate or coast. It just does a little of both causing the car to drive like it's stopping and going very slightly.
As you can see these are first world problems lol. I want to be able to jump in the car and drive it smoothely while it's warming up regardless of temperature. It's a lot to ask for on speed density, FIC 2150cc and R2 cams, but I think it's possible.
The startup will likely be a couple of things with one being the turn on time for closed loop fueling as you mentioned. I have this added to the XML file called "Minimum Temp for Closed Loop" so try initially taking this up to 100F-120F and see how it does. The fueling during warmup will be defined by two tables called "MAF Comp vs Coolant Temp #1 & #2," which is the same table as "IPW Multiplier vs Coolant Temp #1 & #2." I find it easier to use the IPW table because it is in terms of % where as the MAF Comp tables are in random units. If you change one it changes the other.
I wouldn't touch those tables until you verify the AFR at idle (with car completely warmed up) is perfect. This is not just the idle at 1000rpm, but you need to make sure your AFR is also correct for all RPM's you see during warmup. So during the warmup cycle your car may sit at 1500rpm and slowly taper to 1000rpm when the car is completely warmed up. So with the car completely warmed up you must make sure the AFR at 1000rpm, 1250rpm, 1500rpm and 2000rpm are 14.7:1 otherwise you will chase your tale trying to dial in AFR during warmup.
Once this is all done then you put the car in neutral, AC OFF, emergency brake on, key in on position, start the datalogger, and start the car DEAD cold. Once the car is started immediately let off the clutch and just let it collect the data. You will be logging AFR, RPM, coolant temps and when you're done you just look the AFR for a given coolant temp and go into your "IPW Multiplier vs Coolant Temp #1 & #2" tables and increase/decrease the % of fueling based on AFR readings.
Mar 13, 2019, 03:47 PM
#18
Yea, so you have a few issue going on for sure. Question, are you running pump or E85 with the 2150's. BTW, I am 2.15L, FIC 1650cc, and R2 cams on 93 pump.
The startup will likely be a couple of things with one being the turn on time for closed loop fueling as you mentioned. I have this added to the XML file called "Minimum Temp for Closed Loop" so try initially taking this up to 100F-120F and see how it does. The fueling during warmup will be defined by two tables called "MAF Comp vs Coolant Temp #1 & #2," which is the same table as "IPW Multiplier vs Coolant Temp #1 & #2." I find it easier to use the IPW table because it is in terms of % where as the MAF Comp tables are in random units. If you change one it changes the other.
I wouldn't touch those tables until you verify the AFR at idle (with car completely warmed up) is perfect. This is not just the idle at 1000rpm, but you need to make sure your AFR is also correct for all RPM's you see during warmup. So during the warmup cycle your car may sit at 1500rpm and slowly taper to 1000rpm when the car is completely warmed up. So with the car completely warmed up you must make sure the AFR at 1000rpm, 1250rpm, 1500rpm and 2000rpm are 14.7:1 otherwise you will chase your tale trying to dial in AFR during warmup.
Once this is all done then you put the car in neutral, AC OFF, emergency brake on, key in on position, start the datalogger, and start the car DEAD cold. Once the car is started immediately let off the clutch and just let it collect the data. You will be logging AFR, RPM, coolant temps and when you're done you just look the AFR for a given coolant temp and go into your "IPW Multiplier vs Coolant Temp #1 & #2" tables and increase/decrease the % of fueling based on AFR readings.
The startup will likely be a couple of things with one being the turn on time for closed loop fueling as you mentioned. I have this added to the XML file called "Minimum Temp for Closed Loop" so try initially taking this up to 100F-120F and see how it does. The fueling during warmup will be defined by two tables called "MAF Comp vs Coolant Temp #1 & #2," which is the same table as "IPW Multiplier vs Coolant Temp #1 & #2." I find it easier to use the IPW table because it is in terms of % where as the MAF Comp tables are in random units. If you change one it changes the other.
I wouldn't touch those tables until you verify the AFR at idle (with car completely warmed up) is perfect. This is not just the idle at 1000rpm, but you need to make sure your AFR is also correct for all RPM's you see during warmup. So during the warmup cycle your car may sit at 1500rpm and slowly taper to 1000rpm when the car is completely warmed up. So with the car completely warmed up you must make sure the AFR at 1000rpm, 1250rpm, 1500rpm and 2000rpm are 14.7:1 otherwise you will chase your tale trying to dial in AFR during warmup.
Once this is all done then you put the car in neutral, AC OFF, emergency brake on, key in on position, start the datalogger, and start the car DEAD cold. Once the car is started immediately let off the clutch and just let it collect the data. You will be logging AFR, RPM, coolant temps and when you're done you just look the AFR for a given coolant temp and go into your "IPW Multiplier vs Coolant Temp #1 & #2" tables and increase/decrease the % of fueling based on AFR readings.
Mar 13, 2019, 04:56 PM
#19
Perfect, then I will start there. I appreciate the suggestions and methodical approach. I'll increase the minimum closed loop temp, take a look at the IPW table, and start logging cold starts and all idle RPM's during cold start. There's gotta be a way to make this problem go away even with large injectors. At the moment, I am running a dual map tune with 91 as the main map and E85 as the alternate High boost map. I do spend most of my time on the 91 map because that's more than enough power to be happy with. Now I just want to smooth out the driving characteristics.
Also, if you need to tune the idle RPM during cold start use the tables listed below in the XML I provided.
Target Minimum Idle defines the RPM targets at each temperature. Should not need to change much from stock values.
ISCV Demand Target Idle Trim (sub_1ECF6) is how much it will trim "% Demand" as a function of how far you are away from "Target Minimum Idle." If you get the ISCV tables setup correctly you should not have to touch this table.
'ISCV Demand CTS Adder #1**' is the same table as 'ISCV Demand CTS Adder AC Off - Drive' (this might need to be relabeled 'ISCV Demand CTS Adder AC off-Neutral' in my XML)
So when you change "Adder #1" it automatically changes "AC Off-Drive" You lower the "% Demand" at a given temperature and it lowers the ISCV steps so the idle is lowered when AC is OFF.
'ISCV Demand CTS Adder #1b***' which is the same table as 'ISCV Demand CTS Adder AC On - Neutral' (I have this labeled correctly in my XML)
So when you change "Adder #1a" it automatically changes "AC On-Drive" This table will be the values from "Adder #1" plus an additional "% demand" to account for the load caused by the AC compressor being engaged.
With the AC Off and car idling in your driveway, I would initially log RPM, Coolant Temp, ISCV Steps and see if your rpm is inline with the "Target Minimum Idle." If for a given RPM your idle RPM is too high then go into "Adder #1" and lower the "% Demand" at the appropriate coolant temp. Unfortunately, this is an iterative process so it can take several days as you have to collect the data from a COLD START, make changes and then collect the data again to see how your changes affected idle RPM.
Read more about it here
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...ml#post8872495
and here
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...ml#post7085486
