please help low numbers for fp black
 

What's up guys? Ive had my evo 8 for several years now and have gotten it tuned several times at several differant shops since I've owned it. Every time I've gotten it tuned my results have been lower than expected which was always ok but during my most recent upgrade/tune my results were way off. A month ago I had a fp green hta73, gsc s1 cams, injectors and a non cdI ignition installed on top of my other mods previously done including fuel pump, intercooler, hard piping, full 3 inch catless turbo back, ported exhaust manifold ect ect "supporting mods" in other words. I got the car tuned and it only made 385 whp on a dyno jet which was a little lower than expected but still in the acceptable range. When the turbo was installed a wrong gasket was used causing an exhaust leak out of the dump tube. So I decided to get a fp black and swap the turbos seeing my power goals were not met and the turbo needed to be pulled any way. I had the fp black properly installed along with 1000 cc injectors and went for the retune. The car only made 403whp. That's only 18hp from a green to a black. The car made 340ft lbs of tq of the green and 355ft tq on the black. Something seams really wrong. Both tunes were done on fresh 93 octane fuel and fresh spark plugs. The green was tuned at 26.5lbs of boost and the black at 27.5lbs. Both most recent tunes were done at the same shop same tuner and same dyno. I had the tuning shop do the pretune inspection both times and everything came back fine. Compression is where it should be. Car runs and drives great. It's still on the stock maf I've read you don't really run into issues with that until you hit the 460 to 470hp range on a dyno jet. Anything I should check? Other people with similar upgrades are making 450-470. When I got the car tuned a year ago at a different shop on the stock turbo I remember thinking I should be around 340 horse based on what other people had and I only got 300 out of it. Boost leak tests have been done several times over the last year. I bought the car with 100k miles and it now has 130k. Its still on the stock block. Umm I don't really know what to think, any ideas or opinions on this? Could my drivetrain be an issue? Maybe my differential or transfer case is slipping or something? The clutch flywheel and pressure plate have all been recently changed to an act hdss kit.

I responded in your other thread before seeing this. 403 does sound a little on the low for 27/28 psi. If compression is where it should and you claim the motor is healthy then it likely comes down to the tune. One possibility is it was tuned conservatively. After all you are on 94 pump. Why not throw e85 into the mix? What is your power goal?

Another way to really see where the car is just taking it to the track. At the end of the day your trap speed is all you care about there as it will be the best indicator of what power you're making. A dyno is just a tool to optimize the tune so don't get to caught up in the numbers.

Another thing to keep in mind is the because the has 100k on it the tuner may have chosen to keep the tune conservative in terms of power and torque for longevity given it's age. Did the tuner explicitly state why he stopped at 403 whp? If there were limiting mechanical factors or he started getting knock etc? 1000cc injectors cover you for pump gas on a black so he should be fine in terms of fuel.

Can you post dyno plots for both? I also suspect the tuner kept the tune on the conservative safe side. as far as numbers go, dont be too concerned, like mutt said, the dyno is a tool. how does the butt dyno feel? maybe some different cams might help?

I pick the car up today. I can post pictures of both later tonight and I'm taking the car to English town tomorrow. So I can post where I stand with the trap speed soon too. The car was tuned at precision tuning. Huge in the suby world but they tune everything. Great guys too. When they called me to let me know it was finished I got to talk to him for a few minutes. He basicly said it should have made more on both turbos. The car just doesn't want to make power. I will find out what the limiting factor was today. I don't believe it was fuel. I had 850cc injectors in with the fp green at the 385 and I was only at 83% duty cycle.I'm wondering if false knock could be an issue. I am going to run everything I can think of off this guy today. It's not the total ending number that's really bothering me it's the fact that it gained such a small amount going from the green to the black.

i see, let us know what you find. yes, false knock i believe could cause the timing to be pulled. post a dyno/afr/boost plot when you can?

Check your timing, make sure its on point. Do a compression check.

maybe take a few logs and send it to Tom at TSCOMP tuned, he is very helpful and skilled with these cars and won't stop until the car is right and you're making the numbers you should. Just curious, what gear is he doing all of your pulls in? a dyno sheet may help diagnose as well. Is your car an MR?

I was reading a thread just the other day of someone in a similar situation and it turned out it was because back in the day there was a rumour that putting in a thicker headgasket would increase power because of something to do with boost and compression, so as a last hope he replaced his headgasket and the one in there was roughly 3x as thick as oem. After that was swapped out he got the power he was hoping for. Is there any chance that's the case here?

Not to sure possible boost leak?

I think all the above mentioned could be the problem; tune, weak motor, boost leak or being conservative on tune maybe. I have stock 9 turbo with 1000 cc injectors, GS2 cams along with basic other bolt on and just recently got retune By Sean Ivey car made 375/372 tQ @ 28 psi.
Its not making ton of a power but it sure feels good on the road and i will be hitting the track soon to check on my 1/4 mile time and trap speed. Just saying again numbers is just numbers until it backed with results.

Well I got the car back. The tuner said its not an aggressive tune and it's not a conservative tune. The motor is completely happy where it's at. Zero knock. Compression is 155,155,150,155. He thought it was great considering that cams cause it to drop a little. Zero boost leaks. Boost is at 28lbs. Took it to the track yesterday ran a 12.2 at 116mph. How does that sound? If that still doesn't right I'm liking the headgasket idea. That would also cause overall compression to drop limiting the power. That's about the only thing I can think of I haven't checked yet. I will post pictures of the graph if I can figure out how. I've always had issues on this forum posting them.let me know what you run boost.

116 is like 350-370whp dynojet. 470WHP should go at least close to 126 in the 1/4

Thicker headgasket lowers compression. Theres nothing wrong with the car, there is something wrong with the tuner however, that is quite obvious after reading this thread.

This is why you don't take an evo to a Subaru shop.

Hey tom, i sent you a pm.

I really rather not get into the tuner discussion. Each has their pros and cons. I've been to 4 different tuners with the car now. Ivey, akuma, precision, and Enzo. I had lower than expected results at all 4.