Motec M800 VS AEM Plug and Play
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Joined: Mar 2004
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Originally Posted by themanofsteel
Very good imput guy however what is the actual cost comparison of the M800 for the Evo compired to the AEM my AEM cost 1600 I dont think they would sell a the M800 for evos for the 9k price it has to be some what competitive
Its kind of funny how something like an EMS was thought of as such a hardcore racing product 2 years ago. Now it seems like you're not the king unless you have one.
I think you misunderstood my comment Motec has produced a M800 that is plug and play for the Evo 8 specifically and they make one for the STI this very new and if you go to their website you will see it advertised. You dont have to change your wiring harness or sensors you just plug it in. check it out at this website it has been featured in a few car magazines as well http://www.motec.com.au/oem.htm
Originally Posted by themanofsteel
I think you misunderstood my comment Motec has produced a M800 that is plug and play for the Evo 8 specifically and they make one for the STI this very new and if you go to their website you will see it advertised. You dont have to change your wiring harness or sensors you just plug it in. check it out at this website it has been featured in a few car magazines as well http://www.motec.com.au/oem.htm
Originally Posted by propellerhead
Cool. Price? I wonder how many of the features work with the PnP version. It seems that some hacking will be required for WBO2 input.
Originally Posted by evo542
I think the motec is around $5k not $9k but still the aem is way cheaper than that
What Motec application would someone recommend for an Evo that is a street/track(drag & road racing) car with 400 - 500 whp on pump gas and 650+ on race gas? What would be the price?
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Joined: May 2002
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From: Texas...panhandle...ugh
Are there any Motec dealers in the us? It looks like Aussies and Kiwis have the corner on the motec dealers and none of their sites (that I could find) have any prices. I wonder, even if the cost were aside, how well people in the us could tune Motec when everyone is tuning AEM (well, I mean between those two). I would think the AEM has so many more tuners here, it'd be a better choice simply for who's got experience tuning it.
Originally Posted by EFIxMR
the motec can monitor brake pressure, g force, steering wheel angle, lap becon, damper acceleration, wheel speed, and with these inputs and standard engine sensors... it can basically draw your line on a racetrack.
it will tell you if you have oversteer/understeer, if your shocks are tuned properly, if you misshifted, if you braked in the right area, how hard you pressed on the brake, what percent you were full throttle, your cornering speed ect.
this stuff is extremely useful in motorsports, and is essentially what seperates the amateurs from the professionals. for example in world challenge, the front runners use this data to sand bag in specific corners, so that they don't inccur too many weight penalities for winning, which would put them at significant disadvantage the next race.
the m800 also has many different compensations like gear, altitude, egt, exhaust pressure, fuel pressure, fuel temp, ect. you can set the ecu to throw alarms on any sensor... a good idea would be to throw some temp sensors in your transmission, transfer case, or rear differential. it really flexible and up to your imagination/pocket book on what you want to do.
all motec ecu's have great injector drivers, for example of my drag car i run 1600cc bosch injectors. the idle is 1000-1100 rpm. and the a/f is 14.7. the car fires up on the first try 95% of time regardless of weather.
the m800 has 1 meg of on board memory, and would log your 30 minute session without sacrificing much sampling resolution. the m800 communicates via CAN cable which is significantly faster than serial, and the CAN cable allows it to communicate to other devices which follow the CAN protocol. you can essentially network a bunch of devices together provided they are programmed to do so.
the m800 software is also extremely stable and efficient. it will run flawlessly on old laptops... i tune with a pentium 233 mmx laptop... no need to bring my newer laptops to the racetrack where they would likely get damaged.
the construction of the motec hardware is also top notch. the hardware is extremely reliable and problems are most likely due to install error, physical damage, ect. for most people running this stuff... it cost them 5 to 10 thousand dollars just to show up at a race... and for the ecu to fail on them due to hardware issues is simply unacceptable. burned out drivers is unacceptable.
if we were to talk purely about engine tuning capabilities... here's some kool stuff motec does...
sequential ignition w/ individual cylinder correction, but not just some generic retard or advance... we are talking about full 3d maps for every cylinder. the same thing can be done with the fuel.
the main fuel and ign maps are 20 x 40.
the launch control the system and rev limiters are just sick... they need to be heard to be appreciated. last time i heard an aem system doing the same thing... it sounded like the engine was going to explode.
various outputs can be triggered on 2d tables with constum configured axis.
the motec will also run a lab grade NTK wideband, which is known for lead gas resistance.
that's not to say aem sucks. but it is just not in the same class as motec. some people complain that there isn't a community of support for the motec like there is for the aem... but to that... i say it isn't needed. if you buy a motec from motec usa... you can call their technicians and they will walk you thru whatever problem you have. you don't have to rely on joe blow on the internet... who could be essentially talking out of his ***... you can talk with a trained engineer. they don't have the massive volume of customers aem has... and they will give you individualized attention.
it will tell you if you have oversteer/understeer, if your shocks are tuned properly, if you misshifted, if you braked in the right area, how hard you pressed on the brake, what percent you were full throttle, your cornering speed ect.
this stuff is extremely useful in motorsports, and is essentially what seperates the amateurs from the professionals. for example in world challenge, the front runners use this data to sand bag in specific corners, so that they don't inccur too many weight penalities for winning, which would put them at significant disadvantage the next race.
the m800 also has many different compensations like gear, altitude, egt, exhaust pressure, fuel pressure, fuel temp, ect. you can set the ecu to throw alarms on any sensor... a good idea would be to throw some temp sensors in your transmission, transfer case, or rear differential. it really flexible and up to your imagination/pocket book on what you want to do.
all motec ecu's have great injector drivers, for example of my drag car i run 1600cc bosch injectors. the idle is 1000-1100 rpm. and the a/f is 14.7. the car fires up on the first try 95% of time regardless of weather.
the m800 has 1 meg of on board memory, and would log your 30 minute session without sacrificing much sampling resolution. the m800 communicates via CAN cable which is significantly faster than serial, and the CAN cable allows it to communicate to other devices which follow the CAN protocol. you can essentially network a bunch of devices together provided they are programmed to do so.
the m800 software is also extremely stable and efficient. it will run flawlessly on old laptops... i tune with a pentium 233 mmx laptop... no need to bring my newer laptops to the racetrack where they would likely get damaged.
the construction of the motec hardware is also top notch. the hardware is extremely reliable and problems are most likely due to install error, physical damage, ect. for most people running this stuff... it cost them 5 to 10 thousand dollars just to show up at a race... and for the ecu to fail on them due to hardware issues is simply unacceptable. burned out drivers is unacceptable.
if we were to talk purely about engine tuning capabilities... here's some kool stuff motec does...
sequential ignition w/ individual cylinder correction, but not just some generic retard or advance... we are talking about full 3d maps for every cylinder. the same thing can be done with the fuel.
the main fuel and ign maps are 20 x 40.
the launch control the system and rev limiters are just sick... they need to be heard to be appreciated. last time i heard an aem system doing the same thing... it sounded like the engine was going to explode.
various outputs can be triggered on 2d tables with constum configured axis.
the motec will also run a lab grade NTK wideband, which is known for lead gas resistance.
that's not to say aem sucks. but it is just not in the same class as motec. some people complain that there isn't a community of support for the motec like there is for the aem... but to that... i say it isn't needed. if you buy a motec from motec usa... you can call their technicians and they will walk you thru whatever problem you have. you don't have to rely on joe blow on the internet... who could be essentially talking out of his ***... you can talk with a trained engineer. they don't have the massive volume of customers aem has... and they will give you individualized attention.
also, the paper specs of both computers are one thing, but the actual drivability and transient response of the two computers put on the same engine and i could tell the difference.
There are tons of US dealers on Motec however I need to call a dealer and get a price everyone is speculating the price and remember this is a plug and play no wiring harness needed. Some of us miss this crucial point. I will call tomorrow and find an exact price I dont think they would price a system 1/3 the cost of the car. If they did AEM is a sure winner. If it is about 2k to 2.5k I would consider if there are advantages, Like quicker processor quicker reponse time etc. It would have to something extra ordinary. Plus you have to give AEM its cudos for comming out with the system for our cars first and recognizing that we do exist and then motec comming later to the game. If its a better product I wanted people to let me know what their feed back on an engineering and experience level would be.
Again thanks Keep the info coming
Again thanks Keep the info coming
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 363
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From: Singapore
Originally Posted by MyCre8n=Evlshn
Are there any Motec dealers in the us? It looks like Aussies and Kiwis have the corner on the motec dealers and none of their sites (that I could find) have any prices. I wonder, even if the cost were aside, how well people in the us could tune Motec when everyone is tuning AEM (well, I mean between those two). I would think the AEM has so many more tuners here, it'd be a better choice simply for who's got experience tuning it.
Well you could always say you are apart of a FSAE team and buy a nice m4setup with all professional wiring loom, various sensors and advance tuning options for around $3,800. I'm currently building one with my teammates and once the race is over I get to keep the system.