ECUPlus is a piggyback. It messes with the inputs to the ECU. It is nothing like DSMLink.

With DSMLink, you change the fuel and timing tables directly, not lie to the ECU and hope it gives you what you want.

 

Yes it is a piggyback and mechanically they are different, yes. End results however between the two are virtually the same. I may also be wrong but the DSMLink does effect the timing/fuel tables directly however you can only control the main maps (I believe there are around 22 maps for the DSM's) meaning it takes the overall adjustment you made and applies it to any one of the 22 maps the ECU is using at the time. I believe Tom said he would not make it so you could change each table seperately due to the complicity it would create for the end user.

I guess is what I am saying is they mechanically are different yes, but all in all they do the same thing. Each just goes about it differently. I am not saying the DSM Link is a bad product... I am a HUGE fan of it. My friend owns one on his 1st gen and it is an amazing product. I am saying that by using either one you do not have the ability to lock a timing table or a fuel table... the ecu will always adjust. They both influence the end result.

Please dont turn this thread into another vendor bashing thread either I think they are both great products.. if they were both on the market today for our cars I would have a VERY difficult time deciding between the two. I know that Tom Dorris is a great guy and always is coming out with improvements and takes the time to explain exactly how everything works. All his updates are also free once you buy it. The other Tom is also a great guy, seems to be constantly updating his product and also seems to take the time to explain everything and takes users input and tries to make his product bad ***.

From what I hear however, the ECU Plus new version should be out in a few months.... It doesn't seem like the DSM Link will be available for our cars for some time now. If that is the case I would get the ECU Plus.. I NEED to have the ability to control my timing

 

I wasn't turning it into a vendor bashing thread. I just don't like piggybacks. When you mess with the airflow that the ECU sees, you also mess with its load calculation. When you mess with the load calculation, you mess with which one of those tables the ECU chooses to read its timing values from. So it is a moving target. You could end up with a situation where you change your fuel by -4% and end up with another 1 to 2 degrees of timing advance as a result.

I believe I have convinced Tom that having "advanced control" over timing and fuel by changing the maps directly is a good thing, and it would still allow for the basic control that has worked so well for so long.

Incidentally, you could run DSMLink right now in your Evo if you really wanted to. The ECU doesn't know what engine you are trying to attach it to.

 

I dont feel like changing all my sensors. The maf situation also holds me back. I like the stock Evo one and dont feel like getting a second gen maf, new knock sensor, etc, etc... Piggy backs are a cheating way to do things but I have seen good results with people using the ECU+. Granted by pulling airflow it will add timing but then you could pull some timing at the same time.. I understand it is more complicated than it has to be but it will work. Maybe you could help me out on my other post https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=140834

Im trying to figure out my EGT's

 

Sure, you could just pull the timing back after you found out that your fuel adjustment had an unintended affect. But if you just blew a 1/4mi run because of it, or worse, it still stings. Adjusting each tuning knob and having it only adjust the thing that you want to control may sound really basic, but it is really important.

You don't need to get a 2nd gen MAF for DSMLink. You can use the stock Evo MAF. I believe that the knock sensor is the same, but I could be wrong. I don't think Bill changed any of the sensors on his Evo to get DSMLink working in it.

 

Well.. I guess the other problem would be the cost involved. New ECU and the DSMLink... total for both is gonna run me over a grand.

 

Something to monitor knock and adjust fuel settings and being able to run bigger injectors would be AWESOME! Im 100% in if it comes out!

 

This is all true, but you talk about the piggybacks like we don't know the underlying maps and the effects that the piggyback has. Shiv has commented several times that it requires a -10% pull in fuel to make a single degree of difference in timing. That is easily removed. The fact that Shiv does know the inner workings of the maps in the ECU keeps me from worrying about the unknown effects of the piggyback. Either way, I'll take my 20X20 fuel and timing maps over the basic 500 rpm increment sliders that I saw a guy playing with at the drag strip the other day.

 

But if you are at -9 and go to -11 you get an extra degree.

Personally, I'll take direct idle control (mine is set to 950RPMs to take away the lope of the cams and get more oil pressure), rev limiter control, clutch switch controlled ignition cut for wide open throttle shifting without the stress on the tranny, anti-lag on launch, coasting fuel cut adjustment for the higher idle RPM, TPS adjustment in the ECU, idle switch simulation for aftermarket throttle bodies, nitrous control that pays attention to the knock sensor, coolant temp offset for use with lower temp thermostats so the ECU still goes into closed loop, the ability to DISABLE the misfire detection (including random misfires), the ability to disable all OBDII checks, in fact, the ability to correct for injector dead time as well as increased volume, and then the ability to datalog everything that the ECU sees and everything the ECU is doing (individual cylinder knock, for instance).

While I agree that using the tables directly is a good thing (which isn't something Xede or any piggyback does, actually), DSMLink does actually create 3D tables internally that are scaled based on the base tables. The sliders are simple to use and simple to tune and really work extremely well. It doesn't have to be complex to work well. If all you saw and knew about were the sliders I can see why you might think it wouldn't work. You have to use it to appreciate it.

Then add in the absolutely incredible support that Dave and Tom give their customers. These guys really know the inner workings of the ECU. They have to. They disassembled and decoded every last byte of the actual ECU machine code. And they will take the time to explain to you exactly how it all works.

 

monitor knock and adjust fuel settings and being able to run bigger injectors would be AWESOME! Im 100% in if it comes out!I agree that using the tables directly is a good thing (which isn't something Xede or any piggyback does, actually), DSMLink does actually create 3D tables internally that are scaled based on the base tables. The is easily removed. The fact that Shiv does know the inner workings of the maps in the ECU keeps me from worrying about the unknown effects of the piggyback.