Do you have any links? I did not see these tests.

It was my understanding after asking a friend in the know that 20 degree celcius increase across turbo and intercooler chain was good. Am I right or wrong? Ted B or other knowledgeable posters... any comments?

 

the temperature rise you're seeing does seem to be a bit higher than I would expect from an AMS intercooler. I did a some testing on supra intercoolers back in the day, but never the EVO. But those rises you see seem really high. Any chance that your readings are picking up a bunch of heat from the hot intake manifold metal itself, and not really representative of true intake air temps?

 

Good point. Could be.

I just wish someone would post a log so I'd have at least one person to compare to.

Or maybe a vendor with some experience could post what is usual temp increase?

 

Here is a page on APS website on their Subaru FMIC.

http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/wr...dr525_fmic.htm

The relevant data is that at 26 PSI and 70 degrees ambient temp, the intake temp was 110 degrees. That is what a very well established and highly regarded tuning company is boasting about. 40 degrees fahrenheight increase in temps.

So this makes me think I'm not crazy...

 

I can post a AEM log of my SBR GT35R equipped EVO, with a completely stock intercooler and pipes/hoses. the dyno pull was a third gear pull @ 24-23 psi the starting temp was 102 degrees temp started rising @ 4400rpm car was accelerated to 8400rpm @ which the intake temps were @ 140 degrees.

I also tune a 1991 AEM equipped talon with a GT35R running a 40+psi his log begins @ 98 degrees starts climbing @ 5300rpm ang finishes off @ 116 degrees @ 8600 rpm using a 3" eBay core.

I would really like to get the Buschur racing core to see what results I would get, the eBay proves to be better than stock but the Buschur unit does have a minimal rise in temp which should yield more aggressive tuning, especially when racing from a standstill to over 130 mph...

 

Here you go:

http://www.nisei-evo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26


Tell me that's not one of the most thorough tests of an IC with great data.


Eric

 

Thanks for the link.

That looks like a pretty good test except it appears they are testing a pretty beat up and old AMS intercooler versus a brand new Nisei. Not sure that makes a lot of sense but ok. Also the fact that... again it is a test done by the vendor themselves so hard for me to just accept as fact without knowing much about this company Nisei.

Anyway, if this test shows the AMS intercooler adding as much as 54 degrees F above ambient, I guess my results of seeing 20-30 degrees C is not that crazy after all.

Thanks again for digging that link up for me.

 

You are confusing ambient temps with the temp at the start of the pull. Dave never said the ambient temp was xx at the start of the pull, only the temp post ic where is thermo couple is.

The ambient was likely less. In order to compare apples to apples you need to compare the post ic temps before and after the pull, do not consider ambient at all.

For example (going by memory here) from my AEM data, if ambient is around 50 degrees F, post IC temps (thermo couple in upper IC pipe) at the start of the pull will be around 60F and at the end of the pull around 65F.

I would suspect with the AMS IC you would see similar numbers to my Nissie.

 

Dave did say what ambient temps were in the dyno room.

But I recognize what you are saying that measuring post IC temps before a pull gives you a reference of basically how much heat soak is going on in the engine. I agree if you don't measure this then the test is not fair. Basically what you want is a data log... it's pretty suprising DB did not provide this.

I think ambient temp is relevant because most of us don't have probes at the intake pipe before the turbo compressor side. If your driving at a decent speed, or have a decent sized dyno fan... I'm assuming intake (pre-turbo) temps will be about ambient.

But again my point in all this is for people to report their results as I'm hard pressed to believe 40 psi and only 7F increase from ambient. If it is true, then I'll be dropping my AMS intercooler for the Buschur race right away.

 

I still don't know why it is hard to grasp. Yes, Dave didn't provide data and that is why I don't like reading his testing threads. He even came out and admitted that he wouldn't have said anything if it didn't perform well.

But, a good intercooler should barely be above ambient on a one gear pull, period.

Ambient temp is important. All temps are important: intake temp (pre-turbo), which will not be around ambient like you thought (intake temp can be well over 100-150 degrees with an open cone filter and hot engine bay), post turbo/pre-IC temps, and of course post-IC temps.

99% of us just have a temp sensor at the MAF, so we can only read intake temps pre-turbo. It's nice to be able to have temp sensors pre and post intercooler for testing like this.

If you read the Nisei link again, it is thoroughly explained what they did and they provided all logs and all data in graphical format and tablular format. I don't know what is hard to believe there. Yes, it was Nisei doing the tests....but they provided all data and didn't hide anything. They even took pictures or the temperature sensor placements. Also, they did a test against the old Buschur IC and it didn't do too well, either. I think that is when Buschur dramaticall dropped his price on that IC and developed a new one.

The Nisei core went through 1st , 2nd, and third before temps post IC even went past ambient. So, your 30* C gain from one pull is bad. I would say that you need a new IC for your application.


Eric

 

I appreciate your response and do understand everything you are saying. I should probably look into investing in a temp probe so I can see what is going on pre-turbo in my car.

Regarding the Nisei test, I have no qualms with how it was implemented except for the fact it was not an independant party and they used a pretty beat up looking AMS core.

But... here is my situation. I understand you are telling me +30c is bad. However, you aren't quoting any real world data apart from the Nisei test, so I was hoping more people running speed density would contribute here.

All these thousands and thousands of posts on intercooler tests. It's foolish because honestly all you need is about 3 people per intercooler who run speed density to post what they see in their data logs and we'd all have a very good idea of how well each intercooler performed.

I'll start! According to my data logs:

+20c increase from ambient
AMS Intercooler
28 psi / 6000 rpm / GT35R
4" intake pipe pre-turbo / hks mushroom filter / no cold air ducting

 

The test was on an ebay AMS COPY intercooler, not AMS's intercooler..

 

I do know DB's test was on an AMS copy. But what I am saying is I am seeing a much larger net increase from ambient across my AMS intercooler than DB is seeing across his Buschur Race.

 

Results are going to vary drastically.....

Go take your car for a nice long rip.... feel the hotside IC piping then feel the coldside. If the hotside is warm and the cold side is cool you dont need a new IC unless you think its to restrictive. An intercooler can drop temps and still be a lousy performer. You have to keep tabs on airflow as well.

If you keep your undertray on the car and you are actually forcing air into the stock front mount instead of letting it slip by around it you should have great results from the stock unit. Even better if you keep your stock airbox and allow the car to be fed from the high pressure nozzle instead of the hot as hell engine bay in a constantly varying pressure area.

BR runs great times because its a full on race car with but loads of power.....Most people are hurting themselves by installing a GIGANTIC race IC with a Conical filter and lets not get into the venting of PCV.

For those of us that run race gas a big FMIC normally doesn't do jack.

 

Now that a lot of people have speed density setup on their stock ecu's, can we get some more test data of different brand intercoolers and their temps?