30 Celsius = 86 Fahrenheit

 

David speaks the truth in regards to this.

We got over engineering savvy and built a custom vertical fmic for our time attack car... 1400 cfm, high fin density... TONS of charge rows... etc... hoping we could enhance response and that with the proper core we could beat the performance of a good horizontal flow.... well, the end result.. we saw increases of 35-38 degrees during a single pull

we then took the 3.8" garrett core, did some custom tanks to reuse our current piping the best we could...

we measure "ambient" temp off of our dyno weather station... granted... thats not EXACT as far as the temp in the engine compartment, but its pretty close!!!

obviously sitting still on the dyno the piping (and where the IAT is) tend to heatsoak a little, so the IAT's before the pull would read slightly higher than the dyno's temp pickup (usually 10-15 degrees)


with the new configuration you could watch the IAT temps DROP during the pull down within 2-3 degrees of the dynos temperature pickup.

a great way to measure post IC temps and ambient, or pre-ic and post-ic is to use the dual temp probe from DAVTRON (an aviation company)..... you can select either temp OR the difference in the two. I used these extensively when I did liquid to air intercooler testing on the subarus about 5-6 years ago.

cb

 

FYI,

I've logged temps in the range of 52-55*C from an ambient temp of 28-30*C.
This is from an NA car with factory cold air intake.

so i guess ur post intercooler temp isnt alarming.

 

People will have to be specific about what type of intake they are using because post-IC air temp is going to be affected by both the IC and the type of intake used. A bare cone air filter in the engine bay sucks in quite a bit of hot engine air. Also, the location of the SD air temp sensor makes a significant difference. The air temp in the manifold is generally higher than in the UICP. Overall, I'd say that a database of measurements of post-IC air temp measurements of different ICs by different people is not going to be very meaningful. Would be better if one person with the right setup could test a bunch of different ICs.

 

Well that's not cool. Think it was the core design or just the size?

There is a Garrett 16x12x3 core I was thinking about using for a vertical flow setup for a 450-500HP setup looking for response.

Definitely reconsidering now though.

 

FWIW, I gave up halfway through the first page. Don't be a broke peasant, try the IC for yourself before calling bull**** on the numbers. I've already posted this before all over the place. The following numbers are from memory, for more accurate numbers look for the posts from like 3 years ago, I may be off by 1 or 2 degrees.

-On my EVO, with the 4" garret core (BR Race FMIC specifically), I saw a 0 degree temp increase on a 3rd gear pull from 3k to 8k rpm on the street. On a full drag run it would pick up between 9 and 14 degrees. This was on a Green with the WG line removed making as much boost as it possibly could (read: not efficient).

-Same setup but with the 3.5" garrett core (SBR/Kinetic) would pick up ~25 degrees on a third gear pull, and ~55 on a quarter mile run.

-An ebay 4" core on my race car at 40 psi gets up to 150f on the track, and I've seen 190f on the dyno. It clearly needs 150 mph air going through it to even be passable as an intercooler. None the less my ****box runs 8.9-9.0s on it.

I have an old ETS version of the 4" core going on the race car, we'll see what that does in comparison to the ebay one. Based on my previous results and the results of other people, I expect good things.

I run a GM IAT in the UICP in all cases. The race car pulls in cold air thanks to the turbo sticking up out of the hood, the EVO pulled in underhood air. AEM ECU. In all cases starting temp was equal to ambient temp.

The 4" garrett core simply kicks ***, and this data has been available from many different people logging different types of ECUs and sensors on different setups for at least 5 years now. It's no mystery, saying it's impossible only serves to make me lol.

 

In that case, I might be able to test these 3 ICs which I have:

1) ARC FMIC (079) (Tube and Fin but unique design)
2) HKS Type R 4" Tube and Fin IC (its leaking, but will fix it)
3) 3.8" Garrett Core

As I have a JDM E9 GSR, I think there is already an IAT sensor in the manifold. Will have to confirm though. I don't know if I can get to log it through evoscan. I still have the maf.

 

This thread is 3 years old. Since then I've switched to an APS intercooler. It did perform better for me. In 30c ambient temps, I see intake temps via my AiM dash of around 45-50c. So a 15-20c increase.

Keep in mind, that is with an open filter (hks) in a closed engine bay with a tubular header not coated or wrapped.

The point of this thread if I recall was just to solicit what temp differentials people were seeing post intercooler versus ambient.Starting temp was equal to ambient? With an underhood air intake? Seems strange.

Also people are always referencing how much IAT's increase over the course of a pull. Well with both the AMS IC I used to run, and the APS one now, IAT's DECREASED for me during a pull. Which makes sense because there is more airflow over the IC.

 

If one wanted to log before and after FMIC temps what would be the best approach? I imagine many of us would welcome the opportunity to do so. It's not much work to add bungs in the UICP and LICP while EVOScan should make it quite simple.

(Req part numbers and sources for said devices)

 

Ran this test in my car some years back,

Bonnet refers to cone filter being placed unshieded in engine bay
STD is that standard set-up, ie. filter box in engine which sucs from outside
Fog refers to filter being placed outside engine bay behind fog light


All test done on same section of highway with in 1.5h time. Test specs
was to drive car steady state on highway (~110km/h) for ~15min, stop at desired location and allow to idle for 5min. After time was up car was driven to highway on-ramp using same speed and gears in each test. Once on the on ramp WOT from 50 to 140 km/h using gears 3-4, shift at 110km/h. From 140km/h speed dropped to 115km/h and held constant

all curves in one picture.
x = time
y1= temp (MAT, filter)
y2 = speed


Note the MAT curves

Bonnet mount vs fog mount (fog removed)



Fog mount vs. orig filter box with removed resonator


http://www.stcf.net/viggen/filter_temp/fog.pdf
http://www.stcf.net/viggen/filter_temp/bonnet.pdf
http://www.stcf.net/viggen/filter_temp/std.pdf

summary of test, the MAT does not live the same "life" as what the filter temp pre compressor, when once on throttle the engine bay heat does not have the "Power" to heat up all the air that goes into the engine. Putting around town 20mph is another story though.

 

Oops, didn't realize it was an old thread. Thanks for the warning chamama.

It's not strange when measuring temp after the IC. You'd only see the increased underhood temp in the stock MAS' temp sensor, for example. When you're cruising or idling before a pull/run, airflow through the IC is very low. Since it's a huge heatsink and at ambient temp, it's 100% effective for some period of time. In the beginning, IC inlet temp is almost irrelevant. A few extra degrees at the turbo inlet makes no difference. In my case the good IC was 100% effective for the first ~7-8 seconds of an 11 second drag run (temp stayed at ambient) before it came up those ~9-14 degrees in fourth gear. The more heatsink mass the IC has, the longer it will take temps to start to rise from ambient. If the test is started before the IC is back to ambient temp, the temp will rise sooner.

 

So your saying the IC is more efficient when idling, getting heat soaked, and having no air going over it?

Because your saying at the end of a pull, you are 14 degrees above ambient, and at the start of the pull you are equal to ambient. It's just strange because I see the opposite behaviour. If I'm putting around town in 30c temps, my engine bay gets hot as hell, and I see intake temps (UICP) go up. Then if I do a short blast, and get some air over the IC and into the engine bay, my intake temps go way down.

But my intake temps never = ambient, except for the moment I start my car.

 

I have honestly had no luck with vertical flow,

the air simply doesnt spend enough time in core....

I even tried one on our evo X, larger than the TA car... it was simply... "ok"

cb

 

You don't need ambient air going through the IC when you're just cruising around. It's a 40 lb heat sink, it will take forever to heat soak it. It can easily take out the extra 20-30 degrees heat from the higher engine bay temps. There is a possibility that your core is not good at removing heat from the charge air when that charge air is moving at a very low velocity (idle/cruise). Sometimes charge air heat removal performance requires enough internal velocity to make the internal fins do their job, turbulence promotes heat transfer. You don't give any numbers in your post though, so it's hard to say. Getting an idea of the magnitude of the changes you're seeing may help explain what's going on.

 

Just ditch that marginally efficient IC and get something that has the capacity to actually remove heat from the charge air. If it ain't efficient at heat exchanging, then, as a practical matter, it ain't doing its job. I myself have been debating between the ETS 5" core and their 6" core. This is for my dinky Old-School Green. Now, you have a 2.4 Liter, 35R! Well, duh!