Whoop_ass

iTrader: (7)

Well I thought i was done with the fuel system and would be able to crank up the boost but no such luck..!!

we hit a brick wall and even at 32 psi our AFR's are running into the high 13.

Basically my fuel system is as follows..

AMS Fuel Rail
single modded Whine Bro feeding inline Bosch 044..
using stock fuel lines upto bosch pump from there they all -6 to inlet of the rail and -6 to reg and back to stock on return.
feed and return lines are stock
FIC BLUEMAX 1650.

this is good enough to get us to 650hp but we have run out of fuel..

So what is the next upgrade..
What would be better...
twin 044 with surge tank fed with the intank walbro and the new ID 2000cc injectors .
Or go with a one big pump .. Weldon or Fuel lab 1400hp pump.


care to chime in Tony1..

thanks!!!

epson1

iTrader: (2)

I can't believe that's right. I ran 26psi on a 6262 with a single pump, stock lines all the way up to the rail, -6an to my FPR then -6an mating to my oem return line. I hooked up my other pump and haven't ran out of fuel yet at 35psi. What turbo are you running? the wierd part is the 044's are 300lph so you should be capable of flowing alot more than me. I think you might be maxing out the stock fuel lines. might want to try a 8 -an feed from your second pump all the way up to the rail

GotWheelHop

iTrader: (39)

I am planning a similar setup. Dual 040's feeding a surge tank, feeding into a Weldon pump. Going to go to 60PSI base pressure to give my 1650's a little more flow up top.

crcain

My tuner Mark recommended the 044 inline with Walbro to me and said this setup with RC1000cc was just good enough for a 35R on race fuel at a bit over 700 hp measured on engine dyno.

So if you are making 650 atw on a Dynojet, that is probably right around 700 hp at the flywheel so it sounds about right. Although you are on bigger injectors but then I don't think that matters really if your out of fuel.

GotWheelHop

iTrader: (39)

I am pretty sure he is on a 4088r like I am. I was completely out of pump with a single Walbro 255 at 22psi. Didn't have enough volume at high pressure. Were you on e85 with your 6262 at 26psi?

GST Motorsports

iTrader: (8)

Keep in mind the OP is running Ethanol.

OP, what does your IPW/IDC curve look like? Does it max out all of a sudden or just gradual?

- Bryan

crcain

Yeah that point wasn't lost on me, but I didn't put two and two together to realize that in fact, it is surprising that he made 650 atw with ethanol with walbro -> 044 setup.

If we believe the experiences of my tuner, that a walbro -> 044 with 1000cc injectors is maxed out around 700 engine hp. Then I guess what was happening is the fuel system had more to give but was just out of injector based on the experiences of Whoop *** making around 700 hp on E75 with 1650cc.

GotWheelHop

iTrader: (39)

I am skeptical that he is out of injector. Those 1650's flow close to 2000cc's at 75psi if I am remembering my flow sheet right. He just doesn't have enough volume of fuel. Ergo; out of pump.

GST Motorsports

iTrader: (8)

Yea I highly doubt it's injector. It's most likely the wally feeding the inline 044. I've seen a local go from that same setup to twin in-tank wallys and fuel issues where resolved.

Tony1

iTrader: (1)

Definitely out of pump.

A single big pump is nice, if you have a good way to feed it. If you're going to do a walbro feeding a surge tank to feed the big pump, that will work great and that's what i'd do. I wouldn't consider a sump as they suck for anything except straight line acceleration.

As far as single big pump vs. dual 044's, should be good either way, as long as the big pump is a good one. The only pump i'd use in that situation is a Weldon. Dual 044's are going to be quieter, cheaper and probably more reliable than the Weldon. I run dual 044's on my race car.

I'd stay away from the Fuelab pumps, i've seen too many failures from them and they haven't been out for long..

The dual walbro setup is definitely worth considering as well.

JohnBradley

iTrader: (30)

Dual inlines can make 645whp at 71% IDC if ran parallel. We'll be doing twin 044 in parallel for Luke since he already has one (he's out at 690 at 32-33psi on E70/FS635). He is currently using an inline 044 and an intank 255 in series (not parallel). I am going to use one of these on my hog:

http://magnafuelfuelsystems.carshopi.../94416/MP-4301

That and some sized Huge injectors should supply all the E98 I need on a 3586.

TO BE CONTINUED

We tested the same exact setup on E85 running a PT61mm on Deatschwerks 1600's and had the exact same problem car would just lean out like crazy car was running like crap ended up switching to the Buschur Double Pumper and problem solved.

sparky

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, the BR double pumper!

1slowlaser

For what its worth, I made 650whp on E85 with a base fuel pressure set too 38psi on FIC Bluemax 1450s with the same exact fuel pump setup you run at 12.2V under boost @ exacly the same boost pressure, all on stock dsm feed and return lines. I was completly out of injector at 32psi I seen 106% IDC's. These injectors are rated at 43.5psi, obviously running them at a lower pressure means they flow less. Fuel pump volume is relitative to voltage, the higher the voltage the more fuel flow you will have.

You have alot of options in your scenario. One of the main things not mentioned in this thread was, BASE FUEL PRESSURE? Whats the current base fuel pressure set too? Whats the current IDC's at(highest point)? Have you ever had a chance to log battery voltage under boost? If so whats the reading? Whens the last time you did a boost leak test? With your fuel pump setup combined with a kenne bell boost-a-pump on the bosch 044 you will be able to flow over 700whp of fuel on ethanol, 800+ on gasoline. Remember I said above how fuel pump volume is relitative to voltage, the KB BAP, will allow you to adjust voltage to the pump all the way upto 20.5V, and the relation to volume/voltage is nearly 50%!! This means a standard walbro 255 is rated to flow 255lph @ 12.5V, if you can make the voltage higher to the walbro say 18V, that walbro 255 will almost double its output. Something alot of us DSM guys are going too now-a-days, works great, and dosent have any ill-adverse effects on the pumps. My numbers were done w/o the KB-BAP it will be my next investment to try for 750whp on E85, I guarantee these 1450s @ 50psi base pressure, walbro 255 feeding the bosch 044 operating at 17V will support 750+whp on ethanol...even more at a higher base fuel pressure and higher pump voltages.

Whoop_ass

iTrader: (7)

yip hard to believe! car did 660whp on dynapak dyno..


Why use a Weldon as well, if you have a dual 044's this should be more than enough.

correct 4088r with 1.06

Bryan i didnt check IDC as i was not at the dyno the day they tuned it, but it a gradual drop.
at 5000rpm we at 11 AFR and then as revs rise it drops gradually to the point were at 7500 we nearly into the 15's @ 32 psi.

I also dont think it injectors, personally think that the whinebro can't deliver to the Bosch...

I have buschur double pump as well (not fitted) and to be honest i cant see that working either, maybe on pump fuel you will hit 700hp on dual whinebros... but no chance in hell on e85.

makes sense on the sump as the car is not a drag car, I prob think i am gonna go the route of the twin 044's tony with a set of your 2000cc injectors.
that way even at a later stage the fuel system will support the horspower needs if we ever upgrade we have enough Fuel


I some how dont think a Buschur or Fullblown double will enough..


Base pressure 3.5 bar.
Like i said i am prob gonna drop in another bosch as i have one already, then we should be good to go!

thanks for all the info and advice guyus