View Poll Results: FP Red or BBK
FP Red
193
47.89%
BBK
182
45.16%
Other turbo, please specify
28
6.95%
Voters: 403. You may not vote on this poll
POLL: FP Red or BBK
Nov 25, 2009, 01:02 PM
#46
FP Black is out of the question, as I stated, it's probably FP Red or BBK. I have heard the Black also spools slower than the Red, I'm not how you're spooling fully at 3780rpms. If the Red doesn't even fully spool until 4000+ i thought.
DBallz - when I said 272's I meant to put "HKS" in front of there like you had mentioned. Now that I see your post, I will definately look into the Kelfords, but again it depends on how much money I will have leftover from the turbo, manifold, injectors, etc.
CBRD - that are the average numbers you have seen from the BBK (both your MD and say a Dynojet)? What about spool time vs the Red?
Anyone have dyno graphs of the BBK and the Red on a dynojet? How about a Mustang Dyno? List mods if not in signature too.
Thanks guys for all the imput
DBallz - when I said 272's I meant to put "HKS" in front of there like you had mentioned. Now that I see your post, I will definately look into the Kelfords, but again it depends on how much money I will have leftover from the turbo, manifold, injectors, etc.
CBRD - that are the average numbers you have seen from the BBK (both your MD and say a Dynojet)? What about spool time vs the Red?
Anyone have dyno graphs of the BBK and the Red on a dynojet? How about a Mustang Dyno? List mods if not in signature too.
Thanks guys for all the imput
Nov 25, 2009, 05:59 PM
#50
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If you´re wondering about FP´s delivery time for the Red...just call their order desk. You might try calling a few vendors as well. I´d think that there would be reasonably decent availability for the Red at present, since everyone now wants the FP Black.
Nov 25, 2009, 07:40 PM
#51
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Well I can honestly say now that from working at The Shop and ordering FP HTA Greens, Reds, and Blacks for customers the turn around time has now gotten much much better. If they say 4 weeks then you get your turbo in 4 weeks. We ordered some black turbos from the time of order to shipping 2 weeks.
As for the cam issue I'm not saying only the Kelford but it seems that on the Evo 8 the Kelfords were the best choice.
As for the cam issue I'm not saying only the Kelford but it seems that on the Evo 8 the Kelfords were the best choice.
Nov 25, 2009, 09:37 PM
#53
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FP Black is out of the question, as I stated, it's probably FP Red or BBK. I have heard the Black also spools slower than the Red, I'm not how you're spooling fully at 3780rpms. If the Red doesn't even fully spool until 4000+ i thought.
DBallz - when I said 272's I meant to put "HKS" in front of there like you had mentioned. Now that I see your post, I will definately look into the Kelfords, but again it depends on how much money I will have leftover from the turbo, manifold, injectors, etc.
CBRD - that are the average numbers you have seen from the BBK (both your MD and say a Dynojet)? What about spool time vs the Red?
Anyone have dyno graphs of the BBK and the Red on a dynojet? How about a Mustang Dyno? List mods if not in signature too.
Thanks guys for all the imput
DBallz - when I said 272's I meant to put "HKS" in front of there like you had mentioned. Now that I see your post, I will definately look into the Kelfords, but again it depends on how much money I will have leftover from the turbo, manifold, injectors, etc.
CBRD - that are the average numbers you have seen from the BBK (both your MD and say a Dynojet)? What about spool time vs the Red?
Anyone have dyno graphs of the BBK and the Red on a dynojet? How about a Mustang Dyno? List mods if not in signature too.
Thanks guys for all the imput
here is a bbk graph from cbrd im sure they have a red they can overlay.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/at...k-ftw-scan.jpg
mods can be found in this thread https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...d-bbk-ftw.html
any questions just ask
jeff
Nov 25, 2009, 09:46 PM
#54
draven83 - i hope i can get close to my goals with only the turbo, manifold and injectors!
atkins - thanks for the link....i hope CBRD can find a Red overlay to go over a BBK overlay. isnt the price difference between the Red and BBK like $800? thats a good chunk of money...hell those are new cams
atkins - thanks for the link....i hope CBRD can find a Red overlay to go over a BBK overlay. isnt the price difference between the Red and BBK like $800? thats a good chunk of money...hell those are new cams
Nov 25, 2009, 10:37 PM
#55
They are almost the exact same price and I would go with FP over CBRD any day of the week. FP Red is a beast of a turbo.
Nov 26, 2009, 06:11 AM
#56
FP Black is out of the question, as I stated, it's probably FP Red or BBK. I have heard the Black also spools slower than the Red, I'm not how you're spooling fully at 3780rpms. If the Red doesn't even fully spool until 4000+ i thought.
DBallz - when I said 272's I meant to put "HKS" in front of there like you had mentioned. Now that I see your post, I will definately look into the Kelfords, but again it depends on how much money I will have leftover from the turbo, manifold, injectors, etc.
CBRD - that are the average numbers you have seen from the BBK (both your MD and say a Dynojet)? What about spool time vs the Red?
Anyone have dyno graphs of the BBK and the Red on a dynojet? How about a Mustang Dyno? List mods if not in signature too.
Thanks guys for all the imput
DBallz - when I said 272's I meant to put "HKS" in front of there like you had mentioned. Now that I see your post, I will definately look into the Kelfords, but again it depends on how much money I will have leftover from the turbo, manifold, injectors, etc.
CBRD - that are the average numbers you have seen from the BBK (both your MD and say a Dynojet)? What about spool time vs the Red?
Anyone have dyno graphs of the BBK and the Red on a dynojet? How about a Mustang Dyno? List mods if not in signature too.
Thanks guys for all the imput
since we released the BBK we have obviously seen way less of other brand turbos at the shop because our clients are coming to us for our product...
I think the plain and simple is this... the bigger the turbo the more lag... bottom line.... we can't make magic happen... as the years go on FP, ourselves, etc... are able to learn more and enhance the spool of the turbos and still maintain power... however robert builds turbos with much higher power capacity in mind.
I never wanted a 550whp stock housing turbo that I have to supply with another oil line, antisurge cover, inlet pipe etc. etc... our turbo is truly the ONLY 100% stock appearing turbo... stock inlet, stock housings, mitsubishi OEM cartridges....
I have had a red on E85 make 450whp on my dyno at 29psi... ive also had BBK's make 430whp on pump gas... did the cars have the same mods? no... so its hard to compare.
that being said.. the BBK is the highest power stock location turbo thats hit our dyno... But obviously if someone brings me an Fp Black car on high boost with good mods I can make more peak power, but it will sacrifice spool..
The key is that when our clients come to us for a tune, work, etc... we really address every aspect of the build.. the right FMIC, piping, injectors, exhaust bits, cams, headwork etc.... because most of our guys are road racers.... and you see great BBK numbers because the packages are optimized in every aspect
Most of the other brand turbo cars that come in, typically have a bigger turbo slapped to a car that isn't built to our specifications... so they may not see the best power they can!
I think we all go over and over with this conversation, at the end of the day, only YOU as the owner know what your expectations are.... and you need to pick the product that best fits YOUR needs and expectations...
hope this helps.
fortunately for everyone, there are alot of good products to choose from in the Evo community right now.
cheers
CB
Last edited by CBRD; Nov 26, 2009 at 06:18 AM.
Nov 26, 2009, 06:45 AM
#58
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I would say go BBK-Full!!!
It produces the same output as the Red on pump boosts (10-20WHP doesnt make a big difference), but you still have the spool of a stock turbo(this makes a big difference)!!
Believe me, exiting the corner with boost coming early on is much better than lagging through it and then getting another "unfelt" 20whp!!! Ive driven 500+ whp cars and believe me, my 100% stock car feels much more exciting when you hit full boost as soon as you hit the throttle!!! I was in hesitation just like you, but now im Definately going BBK!
That being said, if you plan to go either meth, or E-85 then go Red as you'll be able to produce more WHPs through higher boost which will eclipse the lag issue..
It produces the same output as the Red on pump boosts (10-20WHP doesnt make a big difference), but you still have the spool of a stock turbo(this makes a big difference)!!
Believe me, exiting the corner with boost coming early on is much better than lagging through it and then getting another "unfelt" 20whp!!! Ive driven 500+ whp cars and believe me, my 100% stock car feels much more exciting when you hit full boost as soon as you hit the throttle!!! I was in hesitation just like you, but now im Definately going BBK!
That being said, if you plan to go either meth, or E-85 then go Red as you'll be able to produce more WHPs through higher boost which will eclipse the lag issue..
Nov 26, 2009, 08:52 AM
#60
Thanks for all the good info!
I, personally, will definitely be going with this turbo (BBK full, not the bigger upcoming one)! I'm curious what you think about keeping S1 cams, or if its worth all the money to switch up to S2's with valvesprings. Will there be significant gains running pump 93 on the BBK, probably pushing around 25, 26psi? Or can I save the money I'd have to spend on buying and installing the S2s..
I, personally, will definitely be going with this turbo (BBK full, not the bigger upcoming one)! I'm curious what you think about keeping S1 cams, or if its worth all the money to switch up to S2's with valvesprings. Will there be significant gains running pump 93 on the BBK, probably pushing around 25, 26psi? Or can I save the money I'd have to spend on buying and installing the S2s..
