Don't use mobil 1, it will ruin your journal turbo
Sep 15, 2010, 03:42 AM
#1
Don't use mobil 1, it will ruin your journal turbo
Do you guys know that MOBILE 1 stopped using phosphates, the oil that we once knew is no longer the same, IT DOESN'T HAVE THE SAME QUALITY AS BEFORE.
STOP USING MOBILE 1
I WISH EVERYONE HERE THATS USING A JOURNAL TURBO, HIGHER BOOST CAN READ MOST OF THESE POSTS AND SAVE A TURBO.
copy of post from Ted B
Originally Posted by Ted B
One element that has a bearing on this is who changes the oil. It isn't practical for everyone to deal with oil changes on their own. Some live in areas where boutique oils are more easily accessible. In any case, I see no good reason to use anything less than a full, Grp IV synthetic.
If I had to make a list of considerations, these are my own recommendations for street driven EVOs, based upon where one buys the oil. ZDDP values in ppm (for those who are interested) are listed in parenthesis.
Oil Change Shop
Factory Engine
Mobil 1 HM (High Mileage) 10w-30, HM 10w-40 (1000, 1000)
'Built' Engine
Mobil 1 15w-50 (1200)
Local Retailer - DIY
Factory Engine
Mobil 1 HM 10w-30, HM 10w-40 (1000, 1000)
Castrol Euro Formula 0w-30 (?)
AMSOIL ATM 10w-30, AMO 10w-40 (1300, 1300)
'Built' Engine
Mobil 1 15w-50 (1200)
AMSOIL ARO 20w-50 (1300)
Mail Order - DIY
Factory Engine
AMSOIL ATM 10w-30, AMO 10w-40 (1300, 1300)
'Built' Engine
AMSOIL ARO 20w-50 (1300)
- 'Built engine' means aftermarket rotating assembly, stiff valvetain, omitted balance shafts, and assumes you're going to take it out and beat on it.
- AMSOIL not available from local retailers in all areas
- All oils listed above are Group IV synthetics.
- None of the oils listed above carry the eco-friendly API 'SM' classification.
- I advise against 'racing oils' for street engines, because street engines benefit from detergents. This is unimportant for frequently rebuilt racing engines.
- I advise using a premium oil filter wherever possible. Everyone spends so much time agonizing over oil and neglects the importance of filtration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted B
UPDATED - Now with part numbers
For better filter options, off-the-shelf and otherwise (efficiency in parenthesis):
Good
Fram Extra Guard PG73170 / Mobil 1 MO4612 (95%)
Better
Fram Tough Guard TG7317 / Mobil 1 Extended Performance M1-108 (99+%)
Purolator PureOne PL14610 (99+%)
AMSOIL EaO 46 / Wix 51357 / Napa Gold 7092 (99+%)
- Filters listed side-by-side appear to be the same filter, sold under different names.
- These filters fit a 2003 EVO VIII. Please check compatibility with your specific application to verify proper fitment.
STOP USING MOBILE 1
I WISH EVERYONE HERE THATS USING A JOURNAL TURBO, HIGHER BOOST CAN READ MOST OF THESE POSTS AND SAVE A TURBO.
copy of post from Ted B
Originally Posted by Ted B
One element that has a bearing on this is who changes the oil. It isn't practical for everyone to deal with oil changes on their own. Some live in areas where boutique oils are more easily accessible. In any case, I see no good reason to use anything less than a full, Grp IV synthetic.
If I had to make a list of considerations, these are my own recommendations for street driven EVOs, based upon where one buys the oil. ZDDP values in ppm (for those who are interested) are listed in parenthesis.
Oil Change Shop
Factory Engine
Mobil 1 HM (High Mileage) 10w-30, HM 10w-40 (1000, 1000)
'Built' Engine
Mobil 1 15w-50 (1200)
Local Retailer - DIY
Factory Engine
Mobil 1 HM 10w-30, HM 10w-40 (1000, 1000)
Castrol Euro Formula 0w-30 (?)
AMSOIL ATM 10w-30, AMO 10w-40 (1300, 1300)
'Built' Engine
Mobil 1 15w-50 (1200)
AMSOIL ARO 20w-50 (1300)
Mail Order - DIY
Factory Engine
AMSOIL ATM 10w-30, AMO 10w-40 (1300, 1300)
'Built' Engine
AMSOIL ARO 20w-50 (1300)
- 'Built engine' means aftermarket rotating assembly, stiff valvetain, omitted balance shafts, and assumes you're going to take it out and beat on it.
- AMSOIL not available from local retailers in all areas
- All oils listed above are Group IV synthetics.
- None of the oils listed above carry the eco-friendly API 'SM' classification.
- I advise against 'racing oils' for street engines, because street engines benefit from detergents. This is unimportant for frequently rebuilt racing engines.
- I advise using a premium oil filter wherever possible. Everyone spends so much time agonizing over oil and neglects the importance of filtration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted B
UPDATED - Now with part numbers
For better filter options, off-the-shelf and otherwise (efficiency in parenthesis):
Good
Fram Extra Guard PG73170 / Mobil 1 MO4612 (95%)
Better
Fram Tough Guard TG7317 / Mobil 1 Extended Performance M1-108 (99+%)
Purolator PureOne PL14610 (99+%)
AMSOIL EaO 46 / Wix 51357 / Napa Gold 7092 (99+%)
- Filters listed side-by-side appear to be the same filter, sold under different names.
- These filters fit a 2003 EVO VIII. Please check compatibility with your specific application to verify proper fitment.
Last edited by MR. EVO MR; Sep 21, 2010 at 12:14 PM.
Sep 15, 2010, 05:39 AM
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Sep 15, 2010, 05:43 AM
#5
I would also be interested in a link. I have heard that they have decreased content of zinc and phosphorus over the past few years, but I have yet to see hard evidence.
I just had a turbine failure on my HTA Green and sent it in to FP for repair. It was either Robert or another lead tech there that was talking to me about things. He said to make sure not to use Mobil 1 when pushing their turbos pretty hard. He said a higher zinc content oil is much better, like Amsoil or Brad Penn. Mobil 1 just doesn't do as good of a job on the metal lubrication and surface adhesion as those others do.
I just had a turbine failure on my HTA Green and sent it in to FP for repair. It was either Robert or another lead tech there that was talking to me about things. He said to make sure not to use Mobil 1 when pushing their turbos pretty hard. He said a higher zinc content oil is much better, like Amsoil or Brad Penn. Mobil 1 just doesn't do as good of a job on the metal lubrication and surface adhesion as those others do.
Sep 15, 2010, 05:47 AM
#7
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I would also be interested in a link. I have heard that they have decreased content of zinc and phosphorus over the past few years, but I have yet to see hard evidence.
I just had a turbine failure on my HTA Green and sent it in to FP for repair. It was either Robert or another lead tech there that was talking to me about things. He said to make sure not to use Mobil 1 when pushing their turbos pretty hard. He said a higher zinc content oil is much better, like Amsoil or Brad Penn. Mobil 1 just doesn't do as good of a job on the metal lubrication and surface adhesion as those others do.
I just had a turbine failure on my HTA Green and sent it in to FP for repair. It was either Robert or another lead tech there that was talking to me about things. He said to make sure not to use Mobil 1 when pushing their turbos pretty hard. He said a higher zinc content oil is much better, like Amsoil or Brad Penn. Mobil 1 just doesn't do as good of a job on the metal lubrication and surface adhesion as those others do.
Thanks for the info
-Bink
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Sep 15, 2010, 05:50 AM
#8
I will look for an article on the changes over the past few years. If you really are having a tough time believing that Amsoil or Brad Penn have much better additives for forced induction cars then just send a couple samples out to Blackstone Labs. I have some test kits I can use if we really want hard proof.
Also, call Forced Performance and ask to talk to Robert or another tech there. I can guarantee you they will tell you exactly what they told me. In a journal bearing turbo that is being pushed to high output you want an oil with the best metal adhesion and lubrication properties. That oil is not Mobil 1, and it can lead to problems at higher heat and abuse.
This is not to say that Mobil 1 is a bad oil by any means, but you have to realize that our cars are a rather awkward breed. A 4 cylinder that usually has large turbos attached to it pushing crazy amounts of boost. That is making the heat skyrocket in the turbine assembly and can break down oils pretty fast. Not something an off the shelf motor oil is designed to protect against.
Also, call Forced Performance and ask to talk to Robert or another tech there. I can guarantee you they will tell you exactly what they told me. In a journal bearing turbo that is being pushed to high output you want an oil with the best metal adhesion and lubrication properties. That oil is not Mobil 1, and it can lead to problems at higher heat and abuse.
This is not to say that Mobil 1 is a bad oil by any means, but you have to realize that our cars are a rather awkward breed. A 4 cylinder that usually has large turbos attached to it pushing crazy amounts of boost. That is making the heat skyrocket in the turbine assembly and can break down oils pretty fast. Not something an off the shelf motor oil is designed to protect against.
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roadracer47 (Dec 11, 2017)
Sep 15, 2010, 05:56 AM
#9
Oh and FWIW, here is a sample I sent in using my Brad Penn 20W-50 oil. You can see the level of additives still available after the 1,000 miles. This sample was submitted after 1,000 miles because I was breaking in the motor. If someone has a sample that they had analyzed from Mobil 1 10W-30 or similar post it up.
Sep 15, 2010, 05:57 AM
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I will look for an article on the changes over the past few years. If you really are having a tough time believing that Amsoil or Brad Penn have much better additives for forced induction cars then just send a couple samples out to Blackstone Labs. I have some test kits I can use if we really want hard proof.
Also, call Forced Performance and ask to talk to Robert or another tech there. I can guarantee you they will tell you exactly what they told me. In a journal bearing turbo that is being pushed to high output you want an oil with the best metal adhesion and lubrication properties. That oil is not Mobil 1, and it can lead to problems at higher heat and abuse.
This is not to say that Mobil 1 is a bad oil by any means, but you have to realize that our cars are a rather awkward breed. A 4 cylinder that usually has large turbos attached to it pushing crazy amounts of boost. That is making the heat skyrocket in the turbine assembly and can break down oils pretty fast. Not something an off the shelf motor oil is designed to protect against.
Also, call Forced Performance and ask to talk to Robert or another tech there. I can guarantee you they will tell you exactly what they told me. In a journal bearing turbo that is being pushed to high output you want an oil with the best metal adhesion and lubrication properties. That oil is not Mobil 1, and it can lead to problems at higher heat and abuse.
This is not to say that Mobil 1 is a bad oil by any means, but you have to realize that our cars are a rather awkward breed. A 4 cylinder that usually has large turbos attached to it pushing crazy amounts of boost. That is making the heat skyrocket in the turbine assembly and can break down oils pretty fast. Not something an off the shelf motor oil is designed to protect against.
I'd rather have mobil 1 than anything else in the engine, if it's that bad for a turbo, which i'll have my fp red completely maxxed soon as Mike gets the time to do my build.... So I guess I'll have to do some research on this.....
What amsoil are you using? I would think you'd also want to run something slightly thicker viscosity because the turbos cooking the oil thinning it out when hot.
Sep 15, 2010, 06:04 AM
#13
Oh and FWIW, here is a sample I sent in using my Brad Penn 20W-50 oil. You can see the level of additives still available after the 1,000 miles. This sample was submitted after 1,000 miles because I was breaking in the motor. If someone has a sample that they had analyzed from Mobil 1 10W-30 or similar post it up.
its funny that what we have been talking for some time now people are starting to find out for themselves, sadly through failures of systems.
Sep 15, 2010, 06:04 AM
#14
I'd rather have mobil 1 than anything else in the engine, if it's that bad for a turbo, which i'll have my fp red completely maxxed soon as Mike gets the time to do my build.... So I guess I'll have to do some research on this.....
What amsoil are you using? I would think you'd also want to run something slightly thicker viscosity because the turbos cooking the oil thinning it out when hot.
What amsoil are you using? I would think you'd also want to run something slightly thicker viscosity because the turbos cooking the oil thinning it out when hot.
THINNER BRO
Sep 15, 2010, 06:05 AM
#15
ALL oils that have the "SM" classification (check the bottle) have ZDDP (zinc dialkyldithiophosphates) concentrations that are about 50% less than what they were years ago. This includes mostly 20 and 30 weight oils used in most new cars today.
Where Mobil 1 is specifically concerned:
10w-30 - 800 ppm ZDDP
0w-40 - 1000ppm ZDDP
15w-50 - 1200 ppm ZDDP
Oils that retain the older "SL" certification (e.g. Mobil 1 15w-50) typically contain the original ZDDP concentrations (~1200ppm). Boutique oils (e.g. Amsoil) typically retain the SL classification as well.
And now we move on ...
Did a reduction of ZDDP play a role in your turbo's failure?
NO
There are hundreds of thousands of new and older cars on the road today that use 'SM' classification oils with journal bearing turbos (factory fitted or otherwise), including many thousands of EVOs. If you're looking for a reason why your turbo failed, you'd better keep looking.