Just got off the phone with an Amsoil front line tech. She didn't have an understanding of why distilled water should not be used for applications where anti-freeze is not used, but she did say that its better to use purified water in this situation and not city/tap water. This is somewhat more reasonable, but I'm still trying to reach someone at Amsoil who knows more.

 

Yes, that does make a lot more sense. Thanks for following through. Let us know what they say when you to speak to one of amsoils' cooling specialists. I've been scouring teh internets ever since Apagon mentioned not using distilled water. It seems amsoil is the only one advocating purified water vs distilled. I still dont get the need to switch? Hopefully more chime in. More so hopefully 4REtech chimes in. When ever longevity or durability comes to mind, he's the first build I think of lol

 

spoke to a more knowledgable amsoil person this morning. water has a natural tendency to want a small amount ionic content. straight distilled water will actually pull metal ions off metal, i.e., block/head. its not going to be a lot, but it will be something. for whatever reason, amsoil does not include a "ion" package (my term) in their product and instead relies on whatever ions come in purfied water.

 

Okay, now that makes a lot more sense now... I still find It odd that they use purified water. That's an interesting point about the ions, but it seems they only use purified water, for their lack of an "ion package". If I am reading what you wrote correctly.
The whole reason why distilled is favored over purified water, AFAIK, is because it greatly extends the life of the coolant and doesn't allow a "mineral scale" to build up during the high heat on/off cycle of the cooling system.. I don't understand why amsoil would recommend purified water. If I did run purified water, I would drain it more often for sure. This is also the reason they use distilled or "de-ionized" water for things such batterys and humidifiers, as it extends the product life.

Mrfred, do you see yourself switching in the future?

 

Just to clarify, DI water all by itself will definitely pull metal ions of the block and head, so its not perfect (but a hell of a lot better than putting in tap water IMHO). It needs a package to neutralize the tendency to pull off metal ions.

I've run Redline Water Wetter in the past. I was planning on doing a coolant flush and refill this weekend with Water Wetter, but I think I'll give the Coolant Boost a try. I'll be running 30% anti-freeze, so my plan will be to use DI water. (The Amsoil tech said it was fine to use distilled water in this scenario.)

 

Yes i understand the "pulling of ions" is almost inevitable, thanks for the clarification. But how could one even measure this? By eye, im sure the wear on the water jackets/ passage ways are not noticeable or measurable.

I currently use the same coolant/ water ratio (ie 30/70). I've had great results so far. I'd be interested in seeing Redline vs Amsoil "coolant booster". But again, it would be hard for someone to measure net effects. I'm sure the results of the two are very similar, in terms of cooling efficiency/ performance.

 

Easiest way to study this would be to measure the metal content in the water. There are well-established ways of doing this. Could probably get iron and aluminum content measured for around $100.

I think it will be hard to see a difference between the two, especially since Evo the cooling system works well enough to keep the temperature controlled at 180F under most conditions.

 

-Duh, i cant believe i forgot about that.. Just like an oil analysis, i guess.


- Yes, the Evo cooling system seems to be adequate for most users, even for the high HP guys.. Thanks for answering my questions, for the sake of discussion Mrfred. Appreciate it.

 

whoa whoa - so going back to the evans coolant, if the cooling system is more than adequate, I still don't get why the coolant would run hotter... If it gets hotter thermostat opens and pumps the coolant through the system, should run same temperature...

 

Thermostat can only open so much, and I was referring to when there is water and not Evans circulating. I still don't know what to think of Evans. Gross boiling is a serious issue. If Evans can stop that from happening, then it may be worth running even if heat transfer isn't quite as good as water.

 

that would mean that the evans is so bad at dispersing heat that the thermostat open all the time can't make it's average operating temperature that of running a normal coolant - i.e., overwhelms the cooling system yes? and also means that pushing the car even a little will cause the car to overheat past what it's meant to handle?

 

I suppose the question is how much sooner, if at all, does the Tstat go full open with Evans. And this isn't the only factor in cooling ability. Evan's can maintain liquid contact with the hotspots to much higher temperature than water. This tends to favor Evans being able to better deal with local really hot spots. However as long as things don't get too hot, water is going to be the best because nucleate boiling is very effective at heat transfer from the engine to the coolant:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleate_boiling

I know you're looking for a clear answer about whether Evans is worth it, but I don't think you're going to get that answer without trying it.

 

Kyoo, what Mrfred said in bold, is the only good thing i could see from using Evans "waterless" coolant. But, this is exactly what Redline water wetter does best.. Preventing localized "hot spots" (ie head).. Have the best of both worlds and get water & Redline WW/ Amsoil coolant booster.

 

Thanks. I'm just concerned about the extra heat. I don't have a separate water temp gauge that would tell me exactly what's going on (not a track car).

I would definitely be running it on the track (if i went), but I'm not sure as far as the rest of my normal driving duties are concerned.

 

Just to further the discussion about distilled vs "soft"/ tap / purified water...

I found a great explanation off of Carcraft.com

"What you pour into a radiator is also an important decision if you want to protect all those expensive aluminum engine components. Straight water is the most thermally efficient coolant, but anticorrosion issues and cold weather demand antifreeze. According to Jay Ross at Applied Chemical Specialties, the best water to use is soft water. Distilled water is not a good idea because distillation strips ions from the water. When it is introduced into the cooling system, the natural chemical-balance process will pull the ions from light metals such as aluminum or magnesium that are exposed to the water. This ion transfer greatly enhances the corrosion process called electrolysis. Soft water is treated with sodium chloride that replaces the lost ions and minimizes the electrolysis process. If soft water is not available, then bottled water or tap water is the next best solution. If you insist on distilled water, Ross says mixing it 50/50 with antifreeze will pull ions from the antifreeze rather than from your cooling system itself"

I think I may be switching to "soft" water in the near future..