Transient response is difficult for non-professionals to measure. Most of us can't even reproduce reliable virtual dyno data and all you have to do there is start driving in a relatively consistent manner at a given speed on the same piece of road.

Trying to get somebody to repeat a test at X RPM, Y Speed, after maintaining the speed for Z time, the decal to ....hrm out of letters...RPM then applying throttle in the same manner....blah blah blah

It's not going to happen. Subjective OPINION on the topic is probably the best we can ever hope for.

Saying "Boost recovers in 0.3 seconds after a shift" is absolutely worthless. I can probably dig up logs of an old T67 with 0.3s boost recovery after a shift yet trust me...it wasn't anything similar to a stock turbo on response.

 

Yes I know anecdotal 4th hand blah blah is meaningless really, but it's all we have right now. Multiple vendors selling the SS and TS kits for Evo platform, jack-all in the way of actual dyno's/data. You could infer 3 things from that, either their ideas about effective marketing leave a lot to be desired, noones spending 4K+ on turbo kits for evos due to the changing demographic of owners, or the data isn't all that great. Or could be a little of all three.

Happen to have a dyno graph of when it was tuned? Any road pulls? How's it drive?

 

The fact that you want to swap to TS is telling.

 

The changing demographic is kind of interesting all by itself. When Lucas English picked up my Talon with his gigantic tractor-trailer rig this week, he already had 2 Nissan GT-R's on board before he even got to my landing site. So I asked him if he gets a lot of those. He said yeah quite a lot, and the percentage of GT-R owners who want mods done is quite high. But he also said that by far most of the cars they get are Evos.

 

That's the snapshot picture of the current import modding scene. But I'd like to know how that's changing. I think there's a reason we're seeing shops pull out of evos, no longer developing products, and turning from pure evo shops into servicing other markets including gtr.

Although I thought the DSM scene would be ancient history by now but some husk of it continues on. But in the end there were way more dsms, stis, etc. than ct9as brought into NA.

 

So, I've spent about an hour reading through a good bit of this thread looking for 7163 data, and while I didn't find any "max effort" results, I figured I would join this forum and share some details about my GTR build.

As I went to "register," it said my username was taken. Unusual, given my name on a car forum. I try to login and sure enough, I've been a member here for over 10 years but never posted, lol.

Anyways, I'm in the process of upgrading my GTR from a "stock frame" turbo upgrade (exhaust manifold and turbine are one piece) with 6758 that made 915 rwhp Dynojet on a warm, humid day on pump E85 and trapped 150 mph in the 1/4 (9.18 @ 150).

I'm upgrading to an aftermarket cast manifold with v-band external wastegate 7163s. My car has everything built to handle the power and we are upgrading the fueling with the turbo swap, so I'm hoping it will put down 1100 rwhp and trap 160 mph and net me an "easy" 8 second pass.

If anyone cares, I'll post more info. Nonetheless, thanks for the read.

 

Please do. I'd love to see 1100 whp. But why did you write "rwhp" for a GTR? Do you dyno rwd mode? Is that common?

 

There aren't many AWD dynos around Tampa and some GTR people wiser than me have said that even with a linked AWD dyno, damage can be done to the ETS (FWD clutch) on high horsepower GTRs on the dyno. If I had a reputable GTR shop nearby with an AWD dyno, I would allow them to dyno the car AWD, but my local GTR shop has a RWD dynojet. Pulling the front driveshaft is a pretty simple task for them since they do it so often and the results are fairly comparable since the car is really RWD with FWD assist sending 98% of the power to the rear wheels unless rear wheel slip is detected where up to 50% of the power can be sent to the front wheels; however, the ETS/FWD unit is not particularly robust, so it is really 50% of roughly-stock power than can reliably be sent to the front wheels, call it 300 hp. The ETS/FWD clutches have been upgraded in some cars to different degrees, but the problem then is the weak FWD driveshaft and the puny FWD differential, and several have exploded taking out lots of other expensive hardware. Buschur is working on having a billet FWD differential casing made. In short, it is widely regarded as safer and fairly simple to remove the front shaft and dyno in RWD especially with the prevalence of RWD dynos vs lined AWD, so that is what is done in many cases.

The 150 mph trap speed is a more reliable indicator of how much power the car is making.

Here's a video of the 9.18 pass:
60-130 in 4.33 in cold weather:



Ironically, 100-150 also in 4.33 in cold weather:



Should do 3.9 or better both 60-130 and 100-150 with 7163s.

6758s are good for 49-53 lb/min depending on which compressor map you read, and that, of course, is in their native compressor housing not crammed into the stock "turbofold" which results in a ~.4 A/R and compromised flow using the factory compressor cover.

The kit I am using with the 7163s is by AAM and is relatively unproven: http://aamcompetition.com/i-21090409...r-upgrade.html

I will definitely give up some spool and response mainly from the drastic A/R change, but the decrease in backpressure should more than makeup for it. In looking at compressor maps with my somewhat-meager understanding, I believe I should be able to get very close to 60 lbs/min per turbo. I was holding just under 2 bar until 8k RPM with the 6758s peaking at 2.29 in the midrange all in.

Buschur fully ported my heads and ported/match my intake manifold. I also have his race intercooler kit now (street before with 6758s, 17% larger core on race). I went with the Tomei 264/264 cams which are 10.9% longer duration on the intake side and 6.5% longer duration on the exhaust side than the stock 238/248 cams. Lift is increased by 9.8% on intake side (9.56mm to 10.5mm) and 6.3% on the exhaust side (9.88mm to 10.5mm).are ported, mid-sized (for GTR) Tomei 264 cams (just under 10% longer duration and more lift than stock).

Fore triple Walbro 485s, 12 1100cc injectors controlled by factory ecu using Ecutek.

 

Agree. ~$4K is out of reach for most guys when you can make the same peak numbers with the stock frame stuff. EFR's also seem to be primarily used in Motorsport applications, motorsport guys aren't often forthcoming with data/info so this could also explain why we don't have a larger pool of data.
Hopefully have some results of my own to share soon, new 'tilted' manifold will alleviate some of the issues fitting a nice 3.5" - 4" dump (most other set ups I've seen require an asthma inducing bend off the back of the turbo).

 

Very nice looking manifold! Are you building this for b1 or b2 frame EFR turbos?

 

Jeez, nice explanation of a bunch of stuff I knew none of a minute ago!

 

Is that the hypertune cast collector?

 

Wondering what collector that is as well.

 

I believe I have also seen guys disable the front wheels at the drag strip to do a burnout with just the rear wheels.. I guess they don't like to do that for prolonged periods of time for a dyno?
I can imagine that may be a safety concern as well.


I understand, too many variables to be able to accurately account for.
Thats a shame really, no one around me will most likely have anything like this to try out any time soon. I really only have the stock evo 4 turbo to compare with but on my engine with the giant AMS intake manifold even it feels really sluggish

 

Sorry everyone- its been a little chaotic here- we are running on two of us full time with some part time help as we make some transitions with the business- we are actually gearing up to produce MORE products- which is changing our business model a little-

I will get some charts up-

As for the EFR kits- we currently have the following:

EVO X- 7163 Open Scroll Vband setup- with Internal Gate- this kit was compared back to back on a bbx lite car (used to be our shop car) and I can post plots of that- I can also do a stock turbo car versus the RBX open scroll- I just have to print and scan-

We are in the middle of building a T4 TS EFR7163 kit for the EVO X- it will share the same turbo location- with a different manifold- this still allows owners to use their current (or OEM) turbo inlet/intake, and intercooler piping- the Downpipe changes a tiny little bit- but not much-

I have always preferred open scroll Vband setups over many TS options- in the applications we have used- the housing selections are pretty limited- for this application I think the 7163 will perform will in TS- but it will still lose peak power to the open scroll as predicted (and agreed to by my friend Geoff at Full Race- since we discuss this stuff alot)-

The goal for our RBX SS EVO X was- to have a kit that spooled almost identical to our bbx full ball bearing- which 90% of our clients were choosing at the time- and have a an effective price point to doing- BBX ball bearing (2500$), AMS Downpipe (500$), Tubular stock housing Manifold ($950), and so forth which we basically achieved with this kit-

For most track users that do hardcore track work- the Vband setup and ease of installation presents many added bonuses (no seized bolts, gaskets etc)- and once the stock turbo is off- it can be installed in less than half the time of the stock setup due to ease of accessibility-

-NOW- we have had a request for TS- so we are going to do it to satisfy those that are asking for it- So it should be interesting- I will TRY to test it back to back on the same car- but that may not happen- just due to work load- and limited hands in the shop-

For the EVO 8/9- currently we only have the SS 7163- it can use the OEM intake (perrin inlet etc), and is externally wastegated- we could not place the turbo to our satisfaction with the internally gated setup (in SS- and its even more of an issue with T4 TS IWG).......

Over the years we sold many radiators to people who needed them SIMPLY to give them clearance on someones turbo kit- that took up too much space- so our key design elements were to be able to use a stock radiator (you can even use a STOCK FAN shroud but its VERY VERY TIGHT)-

We were finding that MANY of the EVO 8/9/X's coming to us were second/third owner cars- and the owners wanted to replace everything on them- also failing stock turbos, cracked manifolds, downpipe fitment issues etc- lead us to want to provide more turn key kits for people- and its been very well received- as again our client base is very track oriented also-

For the 7163 itself-

I really really like the turbo (I am actually having inconel exhaust manifolds cast to put them on the GTR)- it reminds me of a GOOD 30R/35R hybrid turbo- It has good response- great peak power- and makes excellent torque not just peak power- The EVO X surprised me when we tested it- having spooled slightly later than our Stock Frame Options but making 40 more whp and only losing 250rpm worth of spool over the SMALLER ones-

The integrated bov on the X setup we are using, has excellent response/driveability so that is a plus- the other big benefit is we can GET ANY small bit or piece for the turbos if we need it--

Regardless- Ill get some pics up- and data shortly- I apologize for not following up sooner- its just been kind of crazy! I have been welding alot of the parts myself- and so forth-

Thanks for reading- any specific non forum based questions can be sent to Chad@cbrdspeedfactory.com!

Cheers

CB