Clutch Engagement Changes
Feb 15, 2013, 02:05 PM
#16
I've had the triple for over 2 years with no problems whatsoever. This issue started after the tranny was rebuilt in December. Since then I've replaced Master and Slave cylinder and rebuilt the clutch. The issue still persists. I cannot accept that the Exedy Triple has engagement issues. It engaged with no problems for two hard launching years.
Feb 16, 2013, 10:59 AM
#17
The changes in engagement with a triple is not from anything that is wrong with the car, it's the design of the clutch.
I would just hate to see everyone with a triple disk clutch go through the trouble of replacing everything when in the end it is a clutch design issue.
Jack
Feb 16, 2013, 11:30 AM
#18
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Triple disk clutches are known to have this issue. The problem is they have too many floaters. The floaters move around all over the place and always find a point of contact with a disk somewhere to create a slight clutch drag issue. There is no way around this, because that's just how the system is designed. Every time you press the clutch a floater will be rubbing on a disk in a different way.
Everyone has these problems using a triple. They not only drive like crap, but they are trans synchro killers too. Ask any trans builder if they will warranty their synchros for a customer with a triple, and all will say NO, including us.
Triple disk clutches look like a great idea on paper, but they are not a street clutch and not a clutch to use if you want any life at all from your trans. The most disks you should find on a street clutch should be 2 and that's it.
Sorry, I wish I had a solution, but there isn't one for a triple. I get the same complaints from other platforms as well- like the Supra. Anyone that uses a triple will have engagement problems, drag problems, and dead synchros in very short time.
Many people are sponsored by some of these clutch manufacturers and push the triple clutch system on others even though they know the clutch sucks. It's not right and I see it a lot in this community. We won't push a poorly designed product even if we get it for free. It's not fair to the customer, who in the end will pay the price.
Jack
Triple disk clutches are known to have this issue. The problem is they have too many floaters. The floaters move around all over the place and always find a point of contact with a disk somewhere to create a slight clutch drag issue. There is no way around this, because that's just how the system is designed. Every time you press the clutch a floater will be rubbing on a disk in a different way.
Everyone has these problems using a triple. They not only drive like crap, but they are trans synchro killers too. Ask any trans builder if they will warranty their synchros for a customer with a triple, and all will say NO, including us.
Triple disk clutches look like a great idea on paper, but they are not a street clutch and not a clutch to use if you want any life at all from your trans. The most disks you should find on a street clutch should be 2 and that's it.
Sorry, I wish I had a solution, but there isn't one for a triple. I get the same complaints from other platforms as well- like the Supra. Anyone that uses a triple will have engagement problems, drag problems, and dead synchros in very short time.
Many people are sponsored by some of these clutch manufacturers and push the triple clutch system on others even though they know the clutch sucks. It's not right and I see it a lot in this community. We won't push a poorly designed product even if we get it for free. It's not fair to the customer, who in the end will pay the price.
Jack
Feb 19, 2013, 11:06 AM
#19
The triple kills synchros due to:
- Too much mass at the clutch disks, so the synchros always have to work harder.
- Constant clutch drag due to the floaters always moving and making contact with the disks.
- Pressure plate that will very easily warp, which will allow the assembly to drag even more than it already does and put strain on the synchros.
Jul 25, 2013, 11:18 PM
#21
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I'd love to know too, I have the same issue on a 2005 Evo 8. I replaced the clutch master and clutch slave cylinder and flushed the system with new brake fluid/bled the system. The clutch I have in there (exedy OEM replacement) has been working fine for about 55k miles and seems to have some life in it yet.
The problem only seems to come with high boost. If I get on the boost hard, the engagement point moves next to the floor. After I use the clutch a couple times, the engagement point moves again to the normal place near the top of the pedal throw. RPMs seem not to affect it, if I engine brake in a low gear or slowly build RPMs, the engagement point doesn't change. Perhaps the boost torquing the engine has something to do with it.
At any rate, it makes the car an absolute chore to drive
I haven't tried replacing the master brake cylinder yet as someone else suggested. I'm sure replacing parts at random will eventually get me a working clutch but I'd rather be a bit more methodical about it.
Hopefully someone can lend a hand!
The problem only seems to come with high boost. If I get on the boost hard, the engagement point moves next to the floor. After I use the clutch a couple times, the engagement point moves again to the normal place near the top of the pedal throw. RPMs seem not to affect it, if I engine brake in a low gear or slowly build RPMs, the engagement point doesn't change. Perhaps the boost torquing the engine has something to do with it.
At any rate, it makes the car an absolute chore to drive
I haven't tried replacing the master brake cylinder yet as someone else suggested. I'm sure replacing parts at random will eventually get me a working clutch but I'd rather be a bit more methodical about it.
Hopefully someone can lend a hand!
Jul 26, 2013, 08:00 AM
#22
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I ran a carbonetics for over 50k miles and never had a clutch engagement issue.
My Quarter master engagement seems to be a moving target though. I find the hotter the car gets (Aka the longer I've driving or harder I've been driving) it seems a little more "grabby".....almost sticky. Like as soon as I let of the clutch it wants to launch. When its cold its way easier to drive.
I'm think of changing my fluid to something with a lower boiling point....maybe its loosing its viscosity as the car get s hot.
My Quarter master engagement seems to be a moving target though. I find the hotter the car gets (Aka the longer I've driving or harder I've been driving) it seems a little more "grabby".....almost sticky. Like as soon as I let of the clutch it wants to launch. When its cold its way easier to drive.
I'm think of changing my fluid to something with a lower boiling point....maybe its loosing its viscosity as the car get s hot.
Jul 26, 2013, 03:09 PM
#23
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I too had this issue which bugged me for a few years before tracing it down to the chinese aftermarket mastercylinders that most brake and clutch shops seem to sell these days. Even from new they can't maintain a solid engagement point it seems and thats based on 3 other evos also running the same units.
Changed to a secondhand genuine mitsubishi master cylinder and now the engagement is rock solid again.
Changed to a secondhand genuine mitsubishi master cylinder and now the engagement is rock solid again.
Aug 6, 2013, 05:57 PM
#25
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Anyone having this problem -- I am curious if you ever used a Power Bleeder to replace brake fluid or bleed the lines?
My thinking keeps going back to some seal or check valve that was damaged, letting boost pressure mess with the hydraulic system somehow. Can't think why else getting on boost would make the engagement point change.
My thinking keeps going back to some seal or check valve that was damaged, letting boost pressure mess with the hydraulic system somehow. Can't think why else getting on boost would make the engagement point change.
Sep 24, 2013, 05:02 PM
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Yeah me too 
Those I've talked to have no idea what could be causing it. I had a shop look at it and they thought it was the clutch master/slave cylinder and replaced both. Didn't fix it. Suggestions from folks I've talked to (including Works and Jack's Transmissions and folks on this thread) are:
I'm baffled by the problem. I'm approaching 60k miles on the clutch and it feels like it needs replacing soon, maybe within a few months. I can report back here at that point.
Those I've talked to have no idea what could be causing it. I had a shop look at it and they thought it was the clutch master/slave cylinder and replaced both. Didn't fix it. Suggestions from folks I've talked to (including Works and Jack's Transmissions and folks on this thread) are:
- Dust from clutch eliminates lubrication on splines, preventing the disc from sliding and perhaps sticking, causing immediate engagement sometimes.
- Throw out bearing is worn in such a way that it will settle into one of two positions. The abnormal position can be achieved by giving the car a lot of throttle, otherwise it settles into the normal one.
- Someone replaced the Brake Master and it fixed the issue, explanation unknown. Not sure how that would even work. Vacuum is routed to the brake booster, and the clutch uses the same reservoir as the brakes, but what does that have to do with clutch engagement?
- Snap ring on clutch pressure plate is worn or improperly installed, causing clutch to not fully disengage, making next engagement seem immediate.
I'm baffled by the problem. I'm approaching 60k miles on the clutch and it feels like it needs replacing soon, maybe within a few months. I can report back here at that point.
Jan 3, 2014, 01:18 PM
#28
my exedy twin did that out of no where.. put in a tilton and issue went away.. rebuilt the twin to a triple and changed my master cylinder to a brand new oem one, checked the slave for any "pills" and were none, installed the triple and issue came back first day of driving the triple. so far what i have kept in the loop is the purple HD cover which im trying to swap to another and figure this out once and for all. everything else i have had in the car never did that, only the exedy has.
Jul 26, 2016, 06:35 AM
#29
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Well a massive bump back from the presumably dead (like a zombie). I've been suffering with this issue for the last 12 months with my NPC (Aussie brand) 5 puck ceramic button clutch. Same issue as previous posters, sometimes the clutch engages right of the floor, maybe 1/2 an inch off the carpet. In all other respects the clutch works fine, 8500rpm shifts are not a problem, but if I come to a complete stop, push the clutch in and put the car into 1st, say at the lights, maybe 1 time out of 3, when I release the clutch it engages at the low spot. If I push the clutch in, put the car into neutral, let the clutch all the way out, and then push the clutch back in and go into 1st again, it seems to fix the issue. I've bleed the clutch about 6 times, including having a mechanic mate of mine put his power bleeder on it. I've replaced the slave cylinder, but not the master. I've also pulled the gearbox off the car, lubed the fork, splines etc (a multiday epic), first time I drove the car it was still doing it.
It's a funny thing, it's as if the clutch disk is only half engaged, like it's slipping until the clutch pedal position reaches it's normally position then it fully engages. The car starts to move a bit then normally after the pedal gets to the normal engagement position. I'm reluctant to just throw money, time and parts (master cylinder) at the problem hoping to fix it but have completely run out of ideas.
So the question is, with this problem first being mentioned back in 2011, has anyone come up with a definitive answer to fix this issue, and an explanation of what's actually happening?
It's a funny thing, it's as if the clutch disk is only half engaged, like it's slipping until the clutch pedal position reaches it's normally position then it fully engages. The car starts to move a bit then normally after the pedal gets to the normal engagement position. I'm reluctant to just throw money, time and parts (master cylinder) at the problem hoping to fix it but have completely run out of ideas.
So the question is, with this problem first being mentioned back in 2011, has anyone come up with a definitive answer to fix this issue, and an explanation of what's actually happening?
