View Poll Results: Answer these questions about your PCV if you run E85
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Possible Ethanol Gunk Explanation
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Possible Ethanol Gunk Explanation
Greetings Evo Owners
I have long been redirected to your forum regarding explanations for why so many people running E85 setups are plagued with black gunk gooping up their injectors. I have long been an active member in various Toyota forums primarily dealing with the 3sgte motor found in the Celica Alltrac, and the MR2 Turbo, and trust me, we have had this same problem that you guys have.
The explanations have ranged from poor fuel quality, to ethanol degrading rubber gaskets or aluminum, to pintle types on injectors somehow causing this unknown buildup. And frankly the mysticism needs to stop. I hear too many uninformed people out there talking about how ethanol is bad, and that it eats fuel lines, and that it clogs fuel filters... When in reality its just such a good solvent, that when you stick it in a system that has been running regular dirty gasoline in it for 20 years all that built up gunk gets washed through the system clogging everything in sight. Is this what the sludge is? Doubtful...
Anyone ever seen a fuel pump that has run for 5 years on mogas vs E85??? That ethanol pump is going to look brand new... that mogas one... not so much...
One suggestion that has not been addressed and one that would quickly explain why some people experience the problem, while others are chronically plagued with it would be the manner in which PCV is dealt with.
Normally stock setups on all motors reroute crankcase gasses laden with vaporized oil and cylinder blowby back through to the intake manifold, and/or just before the turbo charger. Which like most of you know leaves a nice oily film all over everything.
For me, the reasoning is simple. What is difference inside the intake manifold environment that differs from lets say the inside of the gas tank. In the case of PCV gasses routed through the intake, that would mean the presence of oil...
Now couldnt it stand to be reasoned that some sort of chemical reaction takes place between the alcohol and the oil??? Surely this hypothesis makes more sense than pintle caps rearranging ethanol molecules in such a way that the laws of entropy are reversed....
I totally understand that I could totally be off base here, but I guess what I am looking for is confirmation that those who have run into the problem of chronic oil buildup on injectors also have a bit of oil vapor going into their intake manifold (either via PCV or blown/poor turbo seals).
Edit* Please refrain from voting if you have blown or leaking turbo oil seals on your intake side
I have long been redirected to your forum regarding explanations for why so many people running E85 setups are plagued with black gunk gooping up their injectors. I have long been an active member in various Toyota forums primarily dealing with the 3sgte motor found in the Celica Alltrac, and the MR2 Turbo, and trust me, we have had this same problem that you guys have.
The explanations have ranged from poor fuel quality, to ethanol degrading rubber gaskets or aluminum, to pintle types on injectors somehow causing this unknown buildup. And frankly the mysticism needs to stop. I hear too many uninformed people out there talking about how ethanol is bad, and that it eats fuel lines, and that it clogs fuel filters... When in reality its just such a good solvent, that when you stick it in a system that has been running regular dirty gasoline in it for 20 years all that built up gunk gets washed through the system clogging everything in sight. Is this what the sludge is? Doubtful...
Anyone ever seen a fuel pump that has run for 5 years on mogas vs E85??? That ethanol pump is going to look brand new... that mogas one... not so much...
One suggestion that has not been addressed and one that would quickly explain why some people experience the problem, while others are chronically plagued with it would be the manner in which PCV is dealt with.
Normally stock setups on all motors reroute crankcase gasses laden with vaporized oil and cylinder blowby back through to the intake manifold, and/or just before the turbo charger. Which like most of you know leaves a nice oily film all over everything.
For me, the reasoning is simple. What is difference inside the intake manifold environment that differs from lets say the inside of the gas tank. In the case of PCV gasses routed through the intake, that would mean the presence of oil...
Now couldnt it stand to be reasoned that some sort of chemical reaction takes place between the alcohol and the oil??? Surely this hypothesis makes more sense than pintle caps rearranging ethanol molecules in such a way that the laws of entropy are reversed....
I totally understand that I could totally be off base here, but I guess what I am looking for is confirmation that those who have run into the problem of chronic oil buildup on injectors also have a bit of oil vapor going into their intake manifold (either via PCV or blown/poor turbo seals).
Edit* Please refrain from voting if you have blown or leaking turbo oil seals on your intake side
Last edited by l0ch0w; Jan 11, 2012 at 12:24 AM.
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From: Raleigh, Transplanted from Toronto, Canada
I don't have gunk. been running E85 for almost 2 years. My fuel setup has changed over the years but I have used only FIC injectors. I had PTE 1200's and had the OEM EGR/PCV setup at first for about almost year and had no issues. Then I upgraded my fuel system to a double pumper, Removed PCV and EGR, Fuel Lab E85 fuel filter and upgraded all the fuel line to steel braided and FIC 1450's.
Now I have added a Aeromotive FPR and FIC 2150's and I have a catch can on the Intake manifold side and what should be the intake side (I have a line routed to the ground since i have no intake pipe). So far so good.
Now I have added a Aeromotive FPR and FIC 2150's and I have a catch can on the Intake manifold side and what should be the intake side (I have a line routed to the ground since i have no intake pipe). So far so good.
I never recirculate a PVC hose back into intake. The oil mist will reduce your inter cooler efficiency drastically. And oil in the combustion chamber increases combustion temps and tendency to detonate. I had gunk built up on id1000s using E85.
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What oil is everyone running who has the gunk? Even if you arent running PCV gasses into your inakes, could it be possible that your turbo has a bit of leakage? Or is your intake perfectly dry???
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I was wrong 
I dd my car about 50 miles a day. I checked injectors tonight and I have the dreaded build up. Not as much as others, but definitely build up. It wasn't gooey like like what I've seen on other posts.
Here they are:
Cylinders 3 & 4
Cylinder #1:
Cleaned with Seafoam:
I dd my car about 50 miles a day. I checked injectors tonight and I have the dreaded build up. Not as much as others, but definitely build up. It wasn't gooey like like what I've seen on other posts.
Here they are:
Cylinders 3 & 4
Cylinder #1:
Cleaned with Seafoam:
i never experienced the gunk before, but i only get e85 from 1 place only. www.amerigreen.com
Ask Melon Racing about this? They had a issue with this that caused a lifted head from detonation. He said some places us old diesel tanks for E85 and can cause this to happen. I would check your filters and have those cleaned
http://codsm.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3965
Read that thread ^ It's a huge read, but especially everything Thiazole said. He is a chemist and was testing the gunk to help trace what it is. Awesome thread.
Read that thread ^ It's a huge read, but especially everything Thiazole said. He is a chemist and was testing the gunk to help trace what it is. Awesome thread.
