Self-Built oil pan
Jun 20, 2017, 10:40 AM
#76
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
Moving the pick up is great, until one of the welds crack and it wipes out the motor. The pan Chad McCurdy built for me also uses the stock pick up. Car never saw below 75psi of oil pressure at Chuckwalla.
Jun 20, 2017, 10:53 AM
#77
Jun 20, 2017, 11:06 AM
#78
I like data, A real log is going to be more accurate then a gauge. It is just an oil pan but don't forget the R&D that goes into a product. There was a reason Racefab NZ moved the pickup after years of building the oil pan.
Either pan is still an upgrade over stock so you should be fine.
Either pan is still an upgrade over stock so you should be fine.
As for the actual accuracy of a gauge, I am willing to bet my engine that it's pretty danged decent
These oil pans aren't all that complicated. Any decent fabricator, worth his salt, can build one (I lucked out knowing a guy that has done them before). As for the pick up, If there is actual proof as to why RaceFab needed to moved the pick up, and shows it's necessary, then I will take back my "not needed" comments, but I would have to see it's worth the risk of deviating from OEM.
All in all, I think it's easy to over think an oil pan.
Mine works, Race Fab's works, and Sean's works. See what I mean? 
All the back and forth is why my fab guy has no interest in selling them and I've decided I don't feel like dealing with it either LOL. I found myself defending the product and builder and I'm not into any of that. I'd rather play cars.
But, Like you said: any improvement over stock is still an improvement.
Jun 20, 2017, 03:20 PM
#79
I like data, A real log is going to be more accurate then a gauge. It is just an oil pan but don't forget the R&D that goes into a product. There was a reason Racefab NZ moved the pickup after years of building the oil pan.
Either pan is still an upgrade over stock so you should be fine.
Either pan is still an upgrade over stock so you should be fine.
The main thing, is the added oil capacity and those diamond shaped doors that trap the oil for better pickup. That is what helps keep constant oil supply to the engine. If you analyse the oil pan design it becomes easy to understand why the car oil starves on right hand turns. Basically there is no trap door and no extra oil reservoir on the right side of the oil pan to keep feeding the pickup as the oil sloshes towards the left. So you start seeing massive oil pressure loss (not a good thing). The same thing doesn't happen on left hand turns because oil sloshes over from the reservoir from the left of the oil pan and is trapped by the right side of the pan.
Laxman and I am still looking for a 3rd person to go in on this. This is a comparatively cheap mod to keep your engine safe. Come on, there has to be someone else who wants to protect their engines.
Jun 20, 2017, 03:31 PM
#80
I assume the pick.up is moved so that is in an "average" space, as opposed to favoring a side. Under braking isn't really when most of us think of oil starvation.
I don't remember hearing of any road race cars ever having an issue with starvation under accel, so I'm with you there.
We did a week's worth of research and fact checking before building. Still saw no reason to move the pickup.Even if it's deemed "better", in theory,I still haven't found it to be "necessary" or needed. I am having zero problems with temps, pressure, or ground/peripheral clearance.
I don't remember hearing of any road race cars ever having an issue with starvation under accel, so I'm with you there.
We did a week's worth of research and fact checking before building. Still saw no reason to move the pickup.Even if it's deemed "better", in theory,I still haven't found it to be "necessary" or needed. I am having zero problems with temps, pressure, or ground/peripheral clearance.
Jun 20, 2017, 03:59 PM
#81
Acceleration generates the least amount of Gs in our car. Also think about it this way, the oil sloshes forward under braking, after that what happens next? The car starts to turn, so the mass of oil is still sitting mostly in the front starts to slosh either left or right depending on the direction of turn. But most of the mass of oil is still sitting closer to the front of the oil pan as it is starting to move either front left or front right.
Then acceleration comes into play (which generates the least amount of Gs) and the mass of oil starts moving backwards to the center. Again, I would argue that the stock pick up location is the best design and the diamond trap doors are the real solution to the puzzle. As you can see I've put a lot of useless thought into this.
You should have your guy just build me one because of this Kaj!
Then acceleration comes into play (which generates the least amount of Gs) and the mass of oil starts moving backwards to the center. Again, I would argue that the stock pick up location is the best design and the diamond trap doors are the real solution to the puzzle. As you can see I've put a lot of useless thought into this.
You should have your guy just build me one because of this Kaj!
Jun 26, 2017, 12:34 PM
#84
Now the same thing doesn't happen when tilting the pan right because of the extra oil flowing in from the shallow side of the pan passes the pick up as it flows to the right. This is basic physics and fluid dynamic.
As Laxman said we need a 3rd person. Come on guys, the logic behind this pan is sound as I just explained a few posts ago.
Jun 26, 2017, 12:48 PM
#85
Right, the oil is more level during constant sweepers. But it would be like tilting the pan left and at that point it doesn't matter if the pick up is in the center or front-center. Without the diamond trap doors and extra oil capacity the oil will still starve because there isn't much extra oil on the right side of the pan.
Now the same thing doesn't happen when tilting the pan right because of the extra oil flowing in from the shallow side of the pan passes the pick up as it flows to the right. This is basic physics and fluid dynamic.
As Laxman said we need a 3rd person. Come on guys, the logic behind this pan is sound as I just explained a few posts ago.
Now the same thing doesn't happen when tilting the pan right because of the extra oil flowing in from the shallow side of the pan passes the pick up as it flows to the right. This is basic physics and fluid dynamic.
As Laxman said we need a 3rd person. Come on guys, the logic behind this pan is sound as I just explained a few posts ago.
Jun 27, 2017, 06:18 PM
#86
If you think about this logically there is NO need to move the oil pick up to the center. I would argue moving it to the center is actually worse. The reason being, oil sloshes around due to G-forces. The thing that generates the most amount of Gs is braking. There is no car out there (apart from may be the Tesla) that is capable of generating the same amount of Gs during acceleration or turning, as during braking. Since braking generates the most amount of Gs, oil sloshes forward, thus the pick up is in the front.
The main thing, is the added oil capacity and those diamond shaped doors that trap the oil for better pickup. That is what helps keep constant oil supply to the engine. If you analyse the oil pan design it becomes easy to understand why the car oil starves on right hand turns. Basically there is no trap door and no extra oil reservoir on the right side of the oil pan to keep feeding the pickup as the oil sloshes towards the left. So you start seeing massive oil pressure loss (not a good thing). The same thing doesn't happen on left hand turns because oil sloshes over from the reservoir from the left of the oil pan and is trapped by the right side of the pan.
Laxman and I am still looking for a 3rd person to go in on this. This is a comparatively cheap mod to keep your engine safe. Come on, there has to be someone else who wants to protect their engines.
The main thing, is the added oil capacity and those diamond shaped doors that trap the oil for better pickup. That is what helps keep constant oil supply to the engine. If you analyse the oil pan design it becomes easy to understand why the car oil starves on right hand turns. Basically there is no trap door and no extra oil reservoir on the right side of the oil pan to keep feeding the pickup as the oil sloshes towards the left. So you start seeing massive oil pressure loss (not a good thing). The same thing doesn't happen on left hand turns because oil sloshes over from the reservoir from the left of the oil pan and is trapped by the right side of the pan.
Laxman and I am still looking for a 3rd person to go in on this. This is a comparatively cheap mod to keep your engine safe. Come on, there has to be someone else who wants to protect their engines.
I'm not trying to call anyone's baby ugly but there is theory and there is fact. I prefer to go off of Facts. Or properly test theory. BTW, I'm not affiliated with Racefab, I just have one of their pans and would like to point a few things out.
A few years ago there were a few pan options, ams, baffled stock from buschur (drag), then Racefab developed a pan thru R&D ( more then just researching for a week Kaj.LOL) A few designs were made and tested..
https://gyazo.com/519420562685f8eb014b50d2ad732f36
2015.. Balrok went and obtained the Racefab pan from New Zealand and posted pics of it, then as a professional driver he tested the pan on 285 hoosiers driving the wheels off it pulling 1.5/1.6 G's
Thread https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/mo...ump-pan-9.html post #130
Video
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/mo...mp-pan-11.html
If that wasn't enough Andy Smedegard (RS motors/one lap car) arguably one of the best Evo pilots out there runs a FEW of the Racefab pans and has REAL track data to back it up. This is G force data but I have seen oil pressure data and spoke with him.
That was good enough for me to buy a proven pan with REAL data. I didn't care that it was $$$, The results speak for themselves
Everything has to be properly tested. A downpipe or intake manifold are examples. An extreme example would be a turbocharger. I had a engineer locally design his own turbocharger and swear it was the best thing since sliced bread. He dynoed it and it was lazy and didn't make much power. What if he just said it "felt" good or was liked and sold a bunch of cheap turbo's? How many turbo companies claimed xxx and didn't deliver? How many people "felt" that last few degrees of timing really helped and didn't bother to use a chassis dyno. They tuned the bearings right out of them.
Same can be said for porting or building a manifold. It has to be properly tested. There are plenty of examples out there where someone thinks they are doing good but it turns out another way. I'm not saying the oil pan that was copied is bad, I'm just saying it needs Real proven data other then a guy saying " the gauge never moved" Maybe a stock pickup is better, who knows without good data. Either pan is going to be better then stock after racefab came up with the original design.
As far as the oil pickup cracking , Thats a far reach for a company that has been building pans and welding for years vs the subaru issues. According to a few links the Subaru pickup was brazed not welded. Welding is stronger then brazing.
http://www.machinedesign.com/fastene...ng-and-welding
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...p-tube-warning!!! post #6
Last edited by Abacus; Jun 27, 2017 at 06:44 PM.
Jun 27, 2017, 07:38 PM
#87
I'm not opposed to anyone testing my pan or giving me telemetry equipment to test my own, if anyone is that curious. . It does exactly what I needed it to do, so I'm all good on my end.
if others have the same need and want one, I can try to have some made. If not, that saves me from the hour-long, round-trip to the shop and packing/shipping them, all for free (I wouldn't make a dime). I don't mind, if it helps a fellow track nut.
maybe I need to edit my OP.
I was being somewhat facetious about the pickup cracking. Things get dropped, accidents happen. I'm clumsy. I prefer to have quick access to a replacement. Note: my entire car is built that way, though. if pretty much anything on it breaks, I can replace with OEM, right away.
if others have the same need and want one, I can try to have some made. If not, that saves me from the hour-long, round-trip to the shop and packing/shipping them, all for free (I wouldn't make a dime). I don't mind, if it helps a fellow track nut.
maybe I need to edit my OP.
I was being somewhat facetious about the pickup cracking. Things get dropped, accidents happen. I'm clumsy. I prefer to have quick access to a replacement. Note: my entire car is built that way, though. if pretty much anything on it breaks, I can replace with OEM, right away.
Last edited by kaj; Jun 27, 2017 at 07:45 PM.
Jul 1, 2017, 03:11 PM
#90
No, sir. In post #63, you can see it's above the LICP and undertray, just slightly lower than the oil filter. Judging by my old pictures, I don't believe it sits lower than the stock pan. It's been a while since i compared. The front K-member hangs lower as does the OEM braces, if you still have them.
I'd never have a pan on my car that I could tear off while driving.
Well, that and my car isn't very low
I'd never have a pan on my car that I could tear off while driving.
Well, that and my car isn't very low