RSMike

iTrader: (1)

** update, pics on page 2, post #23 **

I'm wanting to put extra baffles and extensions with trap doors if needed into the stock oil pan (sump).
I know BR does a sump -



https://secure.buschurracing.com/cat...04556b9f13ff98

I'm not prepared to send my sump half way around the world to get this done.

Does anyone know how much oil the 4g63 oil pump flows in 1sec at 7500rpm?

How close is the stock pickup to the bottom of the sump?

I've found the main problem is accelerating, with the oil sloshing to the back.
When drag racing, a 1.69 60ft will give me a drop of oil pressure from 80psi to about 50psi.
When on the track, a 90 degree right hander and a right hand hairpin will make oil pressure drop right down to ~35psi when accelerating out of the corner.
When i overfilled the sump, of course it did help the problem. But once the oil gets hot, it just fills up the head and spews oil out the breathers. I do have a Kiggly HLA regulator on the head.

There is limited room to put in a divider wall in the sump to stop oil moving to the left of the sump because of the mains cradle that extends below the bottom of the block.

I was looking at pulling off the top baffle plate, and trap dooring the splitter underneath it. This would help stop the flow of oil to the back.
I cannot tell if the BR Sump has this done to it.

I would love to hear some constructive ideas.

With all custom oil lines and exhaust, i would doubt if the AMS sump would fit. That would end up being close to $1000NZD anyways... (eeeek)

Cheers, Mike

03whitegsr

iTrader: (8)

Not what you are looking for, but Accusump?

Can't give much more of an opinion without a motor/pan/pickup in front of me to see what space is available.

RSMike

iTrader: (1)

Accusump is on the way, but that is only a band-aid for oil surge problem.
It should be used to spikes of pressure loss, not as a substitute for a properly setup sump.

I'll take some pics of my setup and ideas once i get my thinking cap on.
I have a broken block at home that i can test some ideas with.

Cheers, Mike

BenJ

iTrader: (21)

There are dry sump kits such as the Magnus and another brand out of Europe but I forget their name. Expensive, but this would put your mind at ease....just not your wallet lol.

BenJ

iTrader: (21)

Also, notced that you have the Kiggley HLA. This alone is a big help in preventing the head from filling up with oil at high rpm's. The sump that BR sells is a fairly straight forward design that merely retains some oil around the pickup...you should be able to do this fairly easily.

RSMike

iTrader: (1)

thats what it looks like, yes.
I fail to see how that stops oil surge though.
The large hole at the rear of the top battle plate lets a lot of oil slosh upwards.
I'm not saying it doesn't work, i just would like to understand it better.

Dry sump is not an option. This is a street driven car, and i'm not willing to spend upwards of $4k USD on a oil setup.

BenJ

iTrader: (21)

The BR sump looks like it follows the LS2 oil pans,(Corvette C6's). It is a wall with a small opening at the bottom. This allows limited oil flow in both directions.

BenJ

iTrader: (21)

when you accelerate, brake, and corner it will limit the amount of oil traveling to the other side of the oil pan but will not completely stop it.

03whitegsr

iTrader: (8)

You can build your own dry-sump for a decent amount less then $4k. More like $2k, depending on your fabrication skills and connections. But yeah, definitely not an economical fix (until you start factoring in cost of engine damage related to oil starvation). Even then though, an external pump will take you out of a lot of classes of racing.

I'd really like to see somebody release a CNC front case that did a couple things:
Increased oil pump gear size
Made the gears fully supported and not cantilevered like OEM
Increased size/rerouted oil passages and made it simple for external filter and cooler setups
Provided hardened thrust surfaces or thorrington bearings for oil pump gears
Provided a large crankcase vent connection


Sorry, still not a sump fix, but the 4G63 has been out so long I still don't get why this hasn't been done.

RSMike

iTrader: (1)

i agree with a lot of your points.
I dont see how the larger oil pump gears would help though, wouldn't that make it worse!

I think that venting off the bottom of the block would help a lot.
Especially if the valve cover ports were plumbed back into the block/sump.
With air being released out of the top of the engine (breathers), the oil finds it harder to return to the oil pan from the head.

I put 4litres of water into a stock evo6 sump today.
I noticed that the oil return port on the sump was partially covered.
I'm not sure how much oil a normally "full" sump has in it, but i'm guessing about there.

This is why i was asking how many litres per second the 4g63 oil pump can flow.
If it's a sizable amount, i really fail to see how that small area around the pickup can stop oil surge.

BenJ

iTrader: (21)

Not sure on the flow rate of the pump and I searched quite a bit but perhaps someone who knows can chime in. I did find a graph showing the oil pressure at various rpm's and locations. Not sure if it will help but I attached it anyways.

acssa

iTrader: (2)

I also want a better sump... I bought a norris design drysump for my race car... but using that on my road car is not the answer.... loosing the AC etc.

I was thinking of using a small electric oil pump to collect the oil where the oil collects and divert it back pick up area... one thing i dont know is if will foam the oil.... leading to new problems....

accusump dont solve for oil pressure problem because of surge... tried that before.

RSMike

iTrader: (1)

i have a more consistant oil pressure, about 80psi maximum with normal operating temp oil.
Similar to your, 80psi @ 3000rpm.

Here are some logs (stock sump)

11.8sec drag run


11.5sec drag run


track day, single lap



Proper high temp oil pumps are expensive too, like $200+usd. then you have to plumb them up. I'll definitely be doing some testing, and give feedback on my results.
Another idea based on what yours...
Run your oil pump pickup to an external tank (similar to a dry sump, but using the stock oil pump) and run 1 or 2 electrical pumps in the sump to refill that oil tank... cheap mans mock dry sump setup. I have a friend doing this in his nissan and it works well. He uses a truck hydralic pump to return the oil from the sump though.

CHeers, Mike

SmurfZilla

iTrader: (33)

Just buy one from BR straight up instead of sending yours in to be modified.

Silk

iTrader: (4)

Im surprised no one has mentioned one of these yet