Ayoustin

iTrader: (2)

I got to thinking a couple days ago about how awesome it would be to have a stock flanged EFR turbo.

So the envisioned ideal turbine housing would have the following features:

• Factory inlet and outlet flanges to make it true drop in (unlike FP vband stuff)
• Retains IWG to save weight and cost
• Accepts EFR CHRA so replacements are easy to source which minimizes downtime
• Retains twinscroll feature like the stock MHI housing but with a slightly larger A/R to help cut down on backpressure yet retain good spool characteristics
• Made of stainless steel for good corrosion resistance, as well as help reduce underhood temps and help spool

The reasons this is going with an EFR:

• Aluminum center housing mean lighter weight and corrosion resistant
• The turbine wheel is lighter than any other turbo line out there which is the main reason they have better response than anything else
• Lots of size options means it can be made to work on lots of applications whether it's an autox car that needs instaspool, or a track car that needs max power under the curve, or even a street car looking to not give up response for top end power
• EFR replacement center housings are available from countless vendors making them easy to source and doesn't tie you to one company's schedule
• The built in bypass valve and boost controller save money for guys who haven't already bought those yet
• It would allow for upgrading in steps (you don't have to buy an entire turbo kit all in one go)
• Makes for compact packaging which saves weight and engine bay space

So after dreaming all this up, I got ahold of a company that can make such a turbine housing and already does for another platform. I heard back from them today and in order for them to pursue something like this they need some considerable interest so here I am to make this thread to see who this appeals to.

As far as cost goes, figure $5-600 for the turbine housing plus $1200-1800 for the supercore (everything minus the turbine housing) depending on the size of turbo you buy. So shooting in the middle of both of those numbers it'd end up being around $2000 for the complete turbo. Lower cost than the FP ball bearing stuff with better performance.

So, who's interested?

Biggiesacks

great idea, I would be interested.

Evo9isLife

This would be a dream come true.. if they perform like the standard housing version efr. Im interested. Would also be an awesome idea for the new garrett g series turbos.

lv05evo

iTrader: (13)

I would be interested too.

2006EvoIXer

iTrader: (1)

Is this a ball bearing chra?

Ayoustin

iTrader: (2)

heel2toe

iTrader: (41)

I love the concept but having personally seen first hand with my IWG EFR7670 and how tight the packaging is for a bottom mount, this may be a little trickier than you think. Not saying its not doable so please don't take it the wrong way but keep that in mind. Do you have a general idea of what size EFRs you would like to use? The 7163 being a B1 frame would most likely be the easiest and a decent setup for an evo. Once you step up to a B2 frame like the 7670 and above packaging is very tricky which is why most companies opt to do a top mount for the IWG stuff. My WGA is literally like 1/4" away from my block. Also my compressor cover is like basically into my rad fan and thats with a slim fan and slim 1" CBRD radiator.

So once again love the idea for all the reasons you mentioned above and if there was an option on the market at the time I would have opted for it. I wish you luck and hope this pans out bc it would be a BA option!

Ayoustin

iTrader: (2)

I haven't measured out stuff yet (kinda hard with an empty bay lol) but yea the EFR's length has always been its achilles heel. Fortunately there are some ways this would be different than yours. One cool feature of the EFR stuff is the IWG bracket bolts to the CHRA instead of the comp housing so you can clock the housings independent of each other. With this the wastegate would most likely still be on the front side like it is from the factory. A good chunk of the length issue with the EFR stuff is how long the turbine housing is. Without using a vband outlet it should be able to be an inch or two shorter than the Borg housings. The compressor cover to rad clearance is definitely something I'll need to measure out but if the wastegate isn't squished between the turbo and block like it is on your setup then there should be space to have it tucked a bit further back to clear the rad.

As for frame sizes I'd plan to build it around the B2 housing. I haven't seen anyone go smaller than the 7163 which is the largest B1 frame and they still make the 7064 which is the smallest B2 frame. So building around one frame size means the design work only has to be done once. I think the 7064 and 7670 would make up the majority of the population for people who would want this. Furthermore, if someone did want a B1 frame setup it shouldn't be an issue since all the B2 stuff is larger so if a B2 fits then any B1 should also fit.

I might have to design a custom bracket for the wastegate actuator but that's honestly pretty small details at this point. The most important thing is proving to them that there is significant interest. The easier route that they also proposed to me is getting another company on board with this and they (the turbine manufacturer) would produce this as a private label housing for said potential company and if we get another company to commit to this they would essentially bump this up to the top of their priority list of new projects and could start right away.

alpinaturbo

iTrader: (5)

I like the idea, but having 7163 and 8374, I cannot see how they can fit into OEM compatible turbine housing, and not run well over the transmission.
If you manage to squeeze 7670 in there and have it unrestricted by turbine housing, I and many others will buy.

heel2toe

iTrader: (41)

If I can assist in any measurements lemme know!

I really like this concept. Its surprised me that there aren't more bolt in options. Closest concept is that ATP Garret offerings but the results were lacking as I believe the turbine housing was very restrictive.

Regarding being able to clock the compressor housing independent of the WGA, yes that is true however the wastegate canister location is a function of where the flapper is located on the turbine housing so its not like you can place it anywhere or else the rod will bind. that being said knowing that the turbine housing will be custom made you can design it with that intent and should be able to have the freedom to set it up how you'd like.

kikiturbo

I have developed the bottom mount IWG manifold for B1 and B2 EFRs and I had to make a custom IWG canister mount plus custom front engine mount as well as downpipe, of course... The custom WG mount fixed the wrong angle of the rod that the original EFR mount has and also made it easier to package the wg canister with relation to the block. To make the downpipe flow better I moved the turbo towards the gearbox and that made the custom front engine mount a necessity.

One potential problem for any cast manifold will be that the EFR runs in wrong rotation vs the Oe turbo so requires a bit more complicated manifold. That is why the original ATP manifolds for garret turbos were not really good. I am not shooting your idea, but your drop in kit would, apart from cast manifold, still need custom intake, new oil and water lines, etc... Shorter turbine housing coud make packaging easier though..

Just to add, If you need any measurements or pics, let me know if I can help..

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

Here's a few good good pics of my power unit and engine out of the car with the turbo on it. I just don't see a yuge EFR fitting in the stock location while hanging off of a stock location manifold.

Ayoustin

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for your offers guys, I'm sure if this actually gets moving I'll have plenty of measurement requests.

I've thought about rotation a bit as well and I still need to do more thinking on it. The evo is a bit of an oddball that it's one of few factory turboed cars to come with a reverse rotation turbo. Ideally I'd try to make this work with a factory manifold to give people the ability to upgrade in steps and move to an aftermarket manifold later down the road. Custom oil and water lines will be a necessity unfortunately but that can all be made for not too much money. I think if there's room to package the IWG actuator on the bottom of the turbo that would give the best clearance to the block and radiator but i'm not sure if that'd be feasible.

I can't move the turbine housing around too much or it'll lose compatibility with off the shelf O2 housings and downpipes. But the two advantages that will make packaging a bit easier than the BW turbine housings is that the outlet flange is already slightly cocked towards the ground vs the BW outlet which is vertical to the ground and the housing itself will be shorter than the BW housing, the BW IWG housing is long because it needs space to accommodate the flapper.

I think one of the big deal breakers for this situation is making sure it won't stick over too far and come into contact with the front engine mount or transmission. Unfortunately BW also uses fairly larger compressor housings compared to Garrett which can make packaging a bigger challenge. The nice thing about doing this with today's technology is development shouldn't be earth shatteringly expensive to get the housing right with how cheap it is to 3D print parts, most of the cost will be in mold making and tooling costs.

Thanks for the pics Sean, would you be able to measure the diameter of the comp cover? BW does a good job of publishing a lot of their dimensions but I don't think they publish comp housing diameter.

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

It's currently in my car, so no. But I'm pretty sure the FP comp covers are the same as standard Evo9 since the Evo9 compressor outlet and water lines are all compatible.

Ayoustin

iTrader: (2)

After snooping through Eric's build thread it actually doesn't look as bad as I thought it would be. Even with that longer turbine housing he still has a ton of clearance to the power steering pump. I think rad clearance and trans clearance with the comp housing are going to be my bigger concerns. Eric you're using a Full Race kit correct?