The Fuel System Thread: Stock to 1000+whp
 

This thread is intended to provide a coherent guide to upgrading your fuel system as your modifications on your Evo go from mild to wild. When this thread is "finished," we'll clean it up and make decisions to rank competing approaches.

The single most amazing aspect of the Evo is how robust the system is to begin with. Most owners will never need more than a simple Walbro 255lph pump to meet their needs of up to 375+whp. Others will go to 525whp with just a Walbro and a set of bigger injectors. Pretty amazing.

If you would like to contribute to one of these stages, please copy the format I provided by quoting me, then remove the quote brackets, and edit what I, or others, have written.

One option that I am completely leaving out is methanol injection. Feel free to add a section on that if you want.

Here are some helpful links:
RC Engineering - good fuel injector worksheet and have tested many of the fuel pumps discussed in this thread.

Road Race Engineering tech pages: this one explains how important voltage is and explains how wire your pump to get a bit more voltage to it. This one compares different fuel pump flow rates, including the seldom used Denso Supra TT pump.

This website, Stealth 316, goes into incredible detail about a wide variety of in-tank fuel pumps and uses all kinds of objective data to support fuel pump choices.

ImportEvolution is a great company that claims they are about to become an official EvoM vendor. They feature lots more do-it-yourself parts than any vendor I could find on Evom. If there IS a vendor on Evom with as good or better selection of fuel-related parts, let me know and I will change this link to them. This is where I got my external Walbro and they shipped the next day. Very fast.

Aeromotive's website has a lot of good technical information to go along with pumps, and FPRs.

Upgrade #1: Walbro 342 in-tank 255lph fuel pump.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...GSS317250x.jpg

When is this recommended: As soon as you upgrade to a full 3 inch exhaust, add some sort of boost controller, and get a more aggressive tune via reflash or piggyback EMS device. At this point, it isn't absolutely necessary but most vendors/tuners recommend it here because it is so affordable and provides added headroom to your fuel system.

When is it a necessity: According to vendor/tuners on Evom, when you have parts listed above and add aftermarket camshaft/s.

Price: Around $100 bucks

Don't forget: you might want to make sure it comes with the little filter, which might add $10 to your order.

Where to buy: This is just my opinion, but please buy from Vendors on Evom that actually wrench on/tune Evos. AMS, Buschur, Gruppe-S, etc. Their financial health benefits us all.

Fuel system is safe with only this upgrade until?: On a typical dynojet, at about 385whp. On a properly calibrated DynoDynamics at about 345whp. At this point, it is time to add bigger fuel injectors.

More expensive alternative: Denso 1020 Supra Twin Turbo OEM fuel pump. It costs about $200 with the filter "tea bag" and has been tested to flow a bit more than the Walbro at 14 volts.
http://www.3sxperformance.com/images...nso-04-300.jpg

i have ams twinpump and so far so good

Upgrade #2:Larger capacity fuel injectors

http://www.turbogarage.com/includes/...so%20660cc.jpg

When is this recommended:
1.) If you have one of those stock turboed monsters running 11sec/116+ 1/4 mile times, bigger injectors may be a good idea, although folks have gone as fast as 119+ in the 1/4 with the stock ones.
2.) If you have a highly tuned Evo with a modified stock turbo (White Rabbit, 20G-9) that is making over 380whp dynojet/340whp DynoDynamics. 3.)
3.) If you have done ANY full turbo upgrade (Garrett 30R on up).

Which injectors? Bigger isn't better! Go with the smallest capacity that you can absolutely rely upon to handle the power your car will make with its power upgrades.

Stock ECU: Use Denso 660cc or equivalent 680cc, or 720cc for stock, modified stock, GT3071 and 50trim turbos. Using the smallest effective injector will result in less adjustments being necessary to accomodate them and your stock ECU will be better able to make short and long term fuel trim adjusments that are easily within its adjustment range. With the stock ECU, it is rare that you can get anything bigger than 880cc injectors to work effectively.

AEM EMS: This EMS requires somewhat larger injectors due to less efficient injector drivers. (do a search for Evom Guru Ted B for more info on this). Since folks using this system may need to go with 880cc, 1000cc, or larger. This isn't a problem when using the Speed Density approach to metering air and fuel mixtures.

Price: Around $400 bucks

Don't forget: If you buy used injectors, it is a very good ideas to replace the rubber seals.

Where to buy: This is just my opinion, but please buy from Vendors on Evom that actually wrench on/tune Evos. AMS, Buschur, Gruppe-S, etc. Their financial health benefits us all.

Fuel system is safe with only this (and #1) upgrade until?: Assuming you have purchased the proper injectors, your fuel system is capable with these and the Walbro 255 to safely make between 520 to 550whp.

Note: After this it gets interesting...

Upgrade #3: The 525 to 550whp problem: Recommendations needed

Fuel rails are around $160
http://www.importevolution.com/images/aemfuelrail.jpg

This FPR is good to 700whp and is $153
http://www.aeromotiveinc.com/prod_im...10-1-large.jpg

These cheap little $20 gauges bolt right up to your rail or FPR.
http://turbosunleashed.com/shop/imag...re%20Guage.jpg

Bosch relay - couple of bucks
http://www.autotoys.com/pics/boschrelayspdt.jpg

10 gauge wire - $10 bucks.
http://www.xleris.com/images/IMG_0278.JPG

This upgrade should be geared for the MANY Evo owners with turbo upgrades that keep things relatively safe and sane (around 525 to 550whp max), but don't want to completely overhaul their fuel system.

Options:
1.) Rewire Walbro to run 14+ volts. This isn't really that effective on Evo's because they already see pretty good voltage at the pump. Our stock fuel pumps run at ~13.4 volts under load, this slight increase to 14 volts should yield about 5% more fuel delivery at most. Cost: about $20

2.) Buy the OEM Denso Supra TT pump to begin with and run the 14+ volt wiring. Depending on who you believe, this should be good for 10% more fuel than the Walbro at stock voltage.

3.) Add aftermarket fuel rail, fuel pressure regulator, fuel pressure gauge, and supporting under-hood fuel lines and fittings. Cost: about $380.

4.) ?

Vendors, gurus, etc. Please help here.

Upgrade #4: The 550 to 625whp problem: Recommendations/editing needed

This upgrade should be geared for Evo owners like me with large turbo upgrades and built 2.0 to 2.4 motors that want to push their big 30R, 35R or equivalent turbos at or close to their maximum output without going completely full monty.

Options based on cost:
1.) Take what you have done in steps 1-3 and just add an inline external walbro for $116
http://www.importevolution.com/image...o_external.jpg

$10 dollar install kit:
http://www.importevolution.com/images/400-939.jpg

2.) Modify your sending unit and install a single big external fuel pump like the Aeromotive A1000 or a Weldon unit. Includes an external filter, lots of fuel line, FPR, rail, gauge, etc.

3.) Break down and buy a complete big dollar fuel system like the Buschur one or the AMS one for $1400 and be done with it.

Vendors, Gurus, etc. Please help here.[/QUOTE]

Upgrade #5: The 625+whp system: Recommendations/editing needed

This upgrade should be geared for Evo owners with 35R and larger turbo upgrades and built 2.0 to 2.4 motors that want to push their cars "all the way." These are the big boys running their 35Rs to their absolute max, 37Rs, and 40Rs (or equivalent turbos).

First, you might get to 600whp (I'm trying) on the stock ECU, but not much further, this is standalone EMS territory - meaning you are looking at REALLY big injectors well over 1000cc and highly modified fuel systems. In addition to most of the stock fuel components being overtaxed, many other stock systems are completely taxed out: ignition, stock MAF, valvetrain, etc.

1.) Modify your sending unit and install a single big external fuel pump like the Aeromotive Eliminator, A1000, or a Weldon unit. Includes an external filter, lots of fuel line, FPR, rail, gauge, etc.

2.) Break down and buy a complete big dollar fuel system like the Buschur one or the AMS one for $1400 and be done with it: http://www.amsperformance.com/store/...roducts_id=148
http://www.amsperformance.com/store/...sfuelthumb.jpg

Vendors, Gurus, etc. Please help here.

Here are some fuel system basics to assist in understanding the choices for upgrading and why upgrades become necessary:

1. Stock fuel pumps provide enough for perhaps 20% higher HP before they're marginal, and should be replaced.

2. With replacement (upgraded) fuel pumps, you get what you pay for. Walbros are not stock OEM quality fuel pumps. Why is that important? Because manufacturers of stock OEM quality pumps have to build them to last at least the warranty period. Denso and Bosch pumps ARE OEM pumps. The Denso 1020 is the Supra T.T. stock OEM pump, and outflows the Walbro, as well as being much quieter. I've never heard of a Denso 1020 pump failing; in contrast, Walbros fail regularly. The Bosch 044 inline pump is another high quality factory Porsche Turbo pump. Both flow substantially more than a Walbro, are quieter, and more reliable. They cost more than a Walbro, too, but you usually only have to buy them once. Concelli used to sell the Supra pumps for about $175. I've found them on E-Bay for that amount recently. The Bosch 044 inline pumps cost about $225-240, depending on where you find them. (Both of these pumps flow substantially more than the Walbros, and they can be used by themselves or together in a dual pump system if you want more reliable parts.)

3. With any replacement fuel pump, wiring to allow increased or constant voltage means increased pumping capacity. Why would you pay a significant amount of money for an upgraded pump and not give it the current it needs to perform? Rewiring is cheap in terms of performance gains. Under bigger load, the issues with lack of current make both factory and aftermarket pumps underperform. Rewire and get the stability and performance the pump is capable of. Make sure you read enough to know how to wire it safely, and use a relay to do it right.

4. Increased boost must be matched by increased fuel pressure in order for your injectors to spray the same amount of fuel that your ECU is calculating. In other words, the boost pressure in the manifold must be overcome by the pressure in the fuel injector in order for anything to come out. The higher the boost, the greater the manifold pressure the injectors must overcome. The fuel pump must be capable of delivering the amount of fuel your engine demands at the pressure that is necessary to compensate for the boost you're running. If your base pressure is 42 lbs. for example, and you run 20 lbs of boost, your pump needs to provide 62 lbs of pressure to "break even" and flow the fuel that your ECU is using for its computations. Make sure the pump you buy is rated for the flow you need at the pressure you're going to need it. See No. 5.

5. Fuel pumps pump LESS than their maximum flow as the pressure increases. You can have very high fuel pressure and VERY LOW flow at the far end of the boost curve. Run lean, buy a new motor. That's why it's useful to know what your fuel system is capable of flowing at the pressures you're going to run. That includes both fuel PRESSURE and fuel VOLUME.

6. Fuel lines from the pump to the rail are often a volume bottleneck. Too small ----> not enough volume of fuel. With high HP motors, go to an AN-6, AN-8, or AN-10 line from the pump to the rail, and the next size down for the return line.

7. Once you know your fuel lines are adequate for the fuel VOLUME your engine will demand, then install an electric fuel pressure gauge and you'll be able to monitor whether your fuel pressure is rising at a 1:1 ratio with your boost. If you have Defi BF gauges, the controller also has a mode where it will compare the two. That's cool! Now you know exactly what the fuel is doing compared to the boost... Fuel pressure gauges under the hood are used for setting and examining your base fuel pressure, but they are quite difficult to read while you're driving :)

8. Upgraded (in volume) fuel rails and Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulators are recommended if you're making sure your fuel system is adequate for your engine's needs. As for the AFPR, see No. 4 above. While factory FPRs may suffice, why would you save $150 and risk your engine? Rails can be a limitation, too, and can also exacerbate fuel pulsing when you're using high volume fuel injectors. Bigger internal rail volume and cutting out the flow restrictions of the factory fittings are other (+) factors in replacing the rail. Not just the bling here, guys. Most of the major EVO vendors offer these parts for sale. There are threads on this board about various fuel rails, for example, and their pros and cons. Find the one that suits your needs the best -- they're all within $50 or so of each other.

8. Single pump systems can fail. If they do, your car stops running because it has no fuel, hopefully before your engine is damaged. Dual pump systems can fail, too. If only one pump fails, and the other keeps pumping, your motor can keep running. If you're not in it, you may be OK. If you are, the continuing fuel supply may cause you to run lean. That's not good.

Several vendors offer upgraded (and dual) pump systems. You can buy the parts themselves cheaper than their systems, but only if you (1) know what you need, and (2) want to take the time to shop around for the best prices on the parts. Summit, Jegs, and other major race parts vendors have most or all of the fuel line parts. Magnus has a huge fuel rail, anodized for methanol use. AMS offers their own rail. You get the idea -- pick and choose and you can select higher grade pumps and not spend as much, if you want to take the time to do so and you have the technical background to make sure you're getting what you need. Otherwise, rely on the shops that have done the testing and put together their own solution.

IIRC, Denso injectors are a pintle type (someone verify this pls, as my memory may not be correct), and are not what I would recommend for a high hp applications

A ball-type injector (e.g. Delphi) gives:

- Quicker response time (better idle quality with a large injector)
- Has typically 10X less moving mass (lasts longer
- Provides superior performance at high duty rates.

Is there a big external fuel pump that will supply 600whp and is as quiet as a walbro? Currently I have a bosch 044 and it is way too loud IMHO!

thanks
sven

Did you direct mount the Bosch 044 or did you use some isolation in the mounts, like rubber or similar? Is it the sound or vibration that you're hearing?

Hi,
it is the sound and it is mounted unter the car

sven

bg mighty sumo

Did you mount direct to the frame of the car or use isolation between the mount and the car? The Bosch 044 is a very good pump, and you should be able to tinker with the mounting method to minimize the noise that is conducted into the cabin of the car.

Good post.

I think I'll bookmark it for a while.




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Is there a write-up anywhere for Evo's on how to mount and wire up and in-line walbro, which fuel rails can have an aeromotive bolt to it, how to install new ss fuel lines, where and what fittings needed, etc?

I found one for 3000gt's / stealths but not for Evo's... trying to put together my own fuel system soon.

yes its direct to the frame. I will try to put some rubber joint between the braces and the body and see it helps

sven

Question:

How easy or difficult is the Denso 1020 Supra Twin Turbo OEM fuel pump to install ?




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The Denso 1020 is a little different in physical size, which necessitates some minor modifications, while the Walbro is very close to stock size. People have been installing the Denso 1020 in DSMs for a decade, though, and the additional pump capacity and quiet operation are definite advantages, if you're willing to invest a small additional amount of time.

I'm very interested in the Denso 1020 Fuel Pump
http://www.stealth316.com/2-fuelpumpguide.htm#j3
Just need to see more of what would be involved.

The Denso fuel pump 195130-1020 (the Supra Turbo MKIV pump) is one of the best in-tank upgrade choices if you are using injectors up to 550 cc/min and are providing at least 13 volts to the pump. When 18 volts are supplied, the Supra pump is good for injectors up to 880 cc/min. At 13.5 supplied volts no other in-tank pump, except for the R33 Skyline GT-R and A'PEXi BNR32 fuel pumps, flows significantly more fuel up to 70 psi line pressure or 27 psi boost. It is a direct drop-in replacement; all other non-Denso choices require some modification to the fuel pump assembly. It is as quiet as the stock pump. Best of all, it can cost only $180 at Conicelli Toyota. One disadvantage of the Supra pump is its relatively heavy current draw (at 13.5 V, 16A @ 43 psi, 19A @ 70 psi) and large decrease in flow as supplied voltage lowers. Good, heavy-gauge wiring (meaning re-wiring the fuel pump electrical circuit) is a requirement to get the most out of this pump.


.
Mitsubishi Lancer EVO8 stock. This is a Denso fuel pump, model 195130-3360. It looks similar in size and design to the fuel pump used in the non-turbo 3000GT and Stealth. With a tested flow of 191 lph at 43 psi and 13.5 volts it could be considered a drop-in upgrade for the non-turbo models, but not for the turbo models.




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Damn, I wish I would have seen this thread 6 months ago.

I'd like to talk to people that are using surge tanks in their solution. Currently I have 1 Aeromotive a1000 sucking off the back of the tanks. (Went the easy route, didn't pay off :lol: )

A surge tank would be a good idea for upgrade #4. The surge tank will allow for inconsistancies in either pump. (Meaning that if one picks up air, the other won't.)

My thoughts are to use a 255 pump to feed the surge tank -> have the a1000 suck off the suge -> and have the return line feed back into the surge tank.

buschur has a walbro 255 that they sale that is modified and they say that it flows 50% more than a regular walbro 255. Does anyone know anything about it , do you think you could get it and a rail and be ok for a bigger turbo or is the fuel line to small.

Have any of you big hp guys considered a mechanical pump with an electric to prime it for start-up?

More information:

Stock Evo pump = Denso 195130-3360
Toyota Supra Turbo MKIV = Denso 195130-1020


Denso Fuel Pumps
Denso fuel pumps that have a 50-mm diameter and have part numbers that start with 195130 are direct "drop-in" replacements for the stock pump in all 3S turbo cars and 1st-generation DSM cars (1989-1994). Second-generation DSM cars (1995-1998) and all non-turbo 3S models use a 38-mm diameter Denso pump. My web page 2-fuelpumps.htm compares the turbo and non-turbo 3S fuel pump assemblies.

That's contradictive above^^^


Factory pump in the Lancer Evo8. Flow data from T&HTP.3
Design is like the 3000GT NA pump so an adapter would be
needed for the pickup tube and electrical connection on
TT models. An upgrade for NA cars.

http://www.stealth316.com/2-fuelpumps.htm


http://evomoto.com/tech_info.php?tPa...ef6ea40102aa81


CONCLUSION: THE SUPRA PUMP IS TO BIG TO USE WITH THE STOCK EVO FUEL PUMP HOUSING. IN ADDITION THE EVO PUMP HOUSING IS COMPLETLY DIFFERENT. LOOKS LIKE THE WAHLBRO WILL HAVE TO DO.

































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Can anyone confirm this? I was about to pick up a Supra pump this afternoon.

The Supra pump IS much larger in diameter than OE/Walbro. It will not fit without heavy modification... wiring too.

It IS a great pump though...

Supra pump is a good pump...

and probably much safer than Walbro...

BUT the problem, in an high hp/boost engine application, is that it flows a lot less ( around 15 lph ) at 75 psi...

just a few things:

precision injectors (used by AMS, Buschur, us, etc...) are 275$ shipped or at least from me they are. Even AMS and Buschur sell them for less then 400$ as far as I know, way less, like low 300's.

The walbro in tank pump can easily be used to 500whp. I've seen many people doing that.

Stock injectors can be used to 400whp no problem on race gas or pump/methanol. I was making 380whp and trapping 117.9 mph with stock injectors with plenty of room to spare. I would have made 400whp with AEM.

well i need help what im asking is i have a walbro and 660 injectors and i just got a 35r kit and im going to trade my buddy for his 880 and i just need to know what fuel upgrades i need and were i can get them but the cheapest way, cant afford ams system not a lot of money left. SO SOMEONE PLEASE HELP. thanks

You need to do some basic research on fuel volume needs v. air mass that will be generated by your 35R based on your supporting mods.

In general, the stock fuel system with a uprated 342 Walbro (255HP model) is said by many tuners to support up to 450HP. If you're wanting to err on the side of safety, you'd buy a supply line of AN-6 or AN-8 and the necessary fittings to use it, an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and a larger bore fuel rail. Your 880 injectors should be good to 450HP or so.

If you're not familiar with the theory of fuel injector or system sizing, you can get some general estimates of fuel needs here: http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm#WORKSHEET

The Supra Denso pump outflows the Walbro 342 up to 65PSI, and then drops slowly lower as fuel pressure increases. Both pumps are sensitive to voltage, but the Supra pump uses more amps. The Supra pump is much quieter and most would say more durable. Supra pumps flow plenty for 500HP applications in most cases.

Yes, correct...

but you know it depends on the boost you have to use to reach 500whp...

if I need 51 base fuel pressure + 29 psi of boost to reach those whp numbers, than I have to look at good fuel pump with a good flow at 80 psi...

Power Enterprise seems to flow 220 lph @ 80 psi... so much better than Walbro and Supra pumps...

That's all fine and dandy, but the only way to get the Supra pump to fit
is by performing a complete mutant mickey mouse install for the Evo.
( I researched as I really wanted to install a Supra Denso pump ).

The Evo pump housing is plastic and completely different than VR4 or DSM housings.

I installed the Walbro a couple of weeks ago. So far I hear no noise what-so-ever.
Looking at the Walbro as a whole, it appears to be a real good quality pump.
You can see the metal gears. The only thing I didn't like was the plastic base.

Anyways, for the cost of the Supra pump, I can almost buy three Walbro's.

Has anyone ever dissected a failed Walbro 342 to determine what broke?

Figure I would post up my new fuel system which should be done within a week hopefully. It is bigger than all of these so far.

It is the Aeromotive Mechanical pump mounted on the front of the block using a custom spindle mounted to the crank pulley driving a belt that drives the pump. It flows around 2500 lbs / HR at whatever psi you could run. You need a larger pressure regulator to actually bypass enough fuel. The cell currently is still the 8 gallon cell in the rear with the -10 feed lines pumping to 8 injectors. Ill post up pics when its all said and done.

That's an interesting setup. It's been done with the same pump on a 2g Eclipse turbo here in Colorado, driven off the cam sprocket. He uses the stock pump for the primer.

Have any of you seen how AMS plumbs the AN bulkhead to the Intank Walbro?

I like the idea of running two walbro's one in the tank, and one inline, but I dont see how they make it work without completely gutting the pump hanger.

Unnecessary

subscribing

why do you need 51 psi base? That's extremely high.

It was an ipothetic example:
if you, for some reason ( small injectors... ), need to raise up fuel to lower inj duty cycle, you'll HAVE to look at the fuel pump flow given at the (base+boost) fuel pressure.

And btw 51 psi base is not that high:
till you have an idle issue, there are not other problems with an higher base pressure..

The best policy is to size the injectors (and the rest of the system) properly, and leave the base pressure alone. If everything is done correctly, there is no reason to ever change it.

Ted,
Unfortunately, I have to tweak my base idle fuel pressure when tuning for max power with my 880s. I've gone as high as 55psi (12 psi higher than stock) and have had no problems with drivability. I'd definitely rather have slightly larger injectors than have to do this but that would be over $400. We may try to hit 600whp this week in preparation for my September 23 drag race, and to do this we may push it as high as 60psi if it will work...

Most injectors are only rated to around 80-90 psi... if your base is 60 I wouldnt run 30psi... the injectors may actually fail.

If anyone is interested in an A-100, -10 feed lines, aeromotive regulator and an 8 gallon cell that fits perfect in the trunk let me know :)

anyone have a how to on how to put the supra pump in?

Just for reference-

Twin 255 run parallel with twin lines to the rail (twin entry) with 1000cc injectors was good for 708whp and 150mph traps. This was about the limit of the stock ignition, so I could not push it any further. I doubt I had much fuel left to give with the 95% IDC I experienced.
:eek:

Does anyone know the max current draw of the stock fuel pump?

Great and helpful tread!!

I am pleased to show my fuel sistem, a mechanical pump running by an electric motor.

It consist of a walbro 255 fuel pump in the original position that supply an electro-mechanical pump in the front bay.

http://lnx.evolutionclub.net/gallery...DSCN0146_copia

http://lnx.evolutionclub.net/gallery...to&id=DSCN0164

The mechanical pump
http://lnx.evolutionclub.net/gallery...to&id=DSCN0061

The injector (very special one Marelli)
http://lnx.evolutionclub.net/gallery...DSCN0076_copia

Base fuel pressure 8 bar.

I am using this system for more than one year without trouble.

you're running the twinturbo supra pump?

goodness gracious with bschur coming out with his twin walbro setup IN TANK can't someone just show us how to cut the evo fuel pump housing to accept the supra pump???

The problem in modifying the fuel pump/sender assembly is that the pump is housed in a molded plastic cylinder, which is molded to the fixed diameter of the stock pump. The Walbro is the same diameter, and thus fits in the stock location. The Supra TT pump is a 50mm diameter, and will not fit in the same "hole" as the stock pump and Walbro does. You can't "bore out" the hole, as its molded with a thin wall and is not a solid piece of plastic around the pump. You would basically have to just cut most of the lower part of the housing off and build an alternative...

I have found a Denso built pump that is the correct diameter, and expect to have it tested for flow numbers in the next couple weeks. If it flows as well as the TT Supra Denso pump, and is the correct diameter, it would be the solution that offers OEM reliability, quiet operation, Denso quality, and fits in the location where the stock pump resides, without having to hack the fuel sender/pump assembly housing...

THIS is what i wanted to hear. THANK YOU. finally some headway into this mess. i'm sick of hearing about the stupid walbros

any updates?

I made my own fuel system... This will flow enough for anyone :)

It's a Bosch 044 pump.
-8an feed.
-6an return.

RC 1000cc Injectors.
HKS Fuel Rail.
MagnaFuel BTR.
Special home made intank solution :)

http://zevo.se/blog/wp-content/uploa...08/fp-wire.jpg

http://zevo.se/blog/wp-content/uploa.../fuel_pump.jpg

http://zevo.se/blog/wp-content/uploa...6/08/fs_01.jpg

http://zevo.se/blog/wp-content/uploa...t_manifold.jpg
You may find some more information on my blog ;)
http://zevo.se

too big hahah i want the drop in that fits. i can deal with some wiring. waiting for co vr4

Nice....your running a bosch inline 044 pump, with what kind of intank pump?

hope thats not the permanent wiring.

Anyone has a link for the fuel injector seal kit?

I went to a few vendors here, and its not listed on their sites.
thanx

They should come with your upgraded injectors.

If not, I can get some for you,

CO_VR4, how did the tests go with that fuel pump?

The Denso 38mm fuel pump sold here by AP Boss Ltd. was sent to RC Engineering and flow tested. Here are the results:

PSI ------- LBs/Hour ---------- Liters/Hour
35 399 244
40 380 232
45 (43 base pressure) 362 221
50 7 352 215
55 12 333 203
60 17 323 197
65 22 305 186
70 27 289 176
75 32 274 167
80 37 256 156
85 42 236 144
90 47 230 140
95 52 217 132
100 199 121
105 184 112
110 169 103

This is the 38mm Denso pump that fits in the stock fuel sender assembly, not the Denso Supra TT pump, which is a 50mm diameter pump.

What voltage were these tests done at?

Eric

insteresting thread

13.5 volts

Comparing these values to the Walbro values on your site and at RRE, it looks like the Walbro kicks its ass in performance, correct?

I don't have a "site" -- I just had the Denso tested myself, for my own information. :)

At higher pressures, the Walbro does maintain higher flows than the Denso.

Whether that makes a differenece in your pump selection really depends on how much boost you plan to run, since the boost determines the level of pressure that the pump has to match on a 1:1 increase. Under 30 PSI of boost, there's not much difference. It's the guys with big turbos running very high boost that need this information to make a decision about pump selection.

The Denso has the advantage of being much more quiet, and OEM quality for longevity. So, if you want a quiet dependable OEM quality pump and don't boost over 30 PSI or so, the Denso will be a good option.

If you want to spend quite a bit less, and have higher pressure capacity, the Walbro is in widespread use.

I had always assumed that the VR4 website was yours. :-)

The flow numbers you have show it flowing quite a bit less across the entire pressure range than Walbros also tested by RCEng.

For pump gas with stock to mild turbo upgrades, the Denso does make sense because its a more reliable pump. I'm in need of something that can supply sufficent flow for an E85 setup where the fuel needs are much higher, and the boost pressures run high (as high as 25 psi at 7000 prm) to take advantage of the E85. From what I've read, the Wally is the only drop-in pump that's up for the job. I do worry about the reliability issue though. I'd really like to take a look at what would be needed to fit a Supra or Skyline sized pump in there.

^^ Because the stock fuel pump assembly is molded, the "drop-in" pump options are limited to 38mm diameter pumps. The Supra pump is an option, but the only way I know of to do it is to use a Full Blown or similar custom housing if you want to put it in the tank. Another option would be to use the in-tank pump as a feeder, and put a Denso Supra 1020 pump (or a Bosch 044) inline. The Bosch is a real performer at high pressures, flowing nearly 300 lph without a feeder at 90 PSI (check for AMS fuel pump testing results). That would keep you well fueled at the pressures and E-85 fuel you're thinking about, unless you had a larger turbo. Both the Supra 1020 and the Bosch pumps are very reliable OEM parts, as well.