end all 2.3 2.4 2.1 2.2 stroker big block thread
ok so i'd like to make an end all 2.3 2.4 2.1 2.2 stroker big block thread.
right now i'm just gathering a lot of posts from a lot of different threads, trying to consolidate them. i'd like to thank the people i'm quoting in advance. i'd also like everyone to contribute as much information as they have, however technical. basics first! Stock motor 4g63 2.0 specifications block: 4G63 bore: 85mm stroke: 88mm deck height: 0mm piston cross sectional area: ~5675mm^2, overall displacement: 1.99L rod length: 149.86 rod/stroke ratio: 1.71 piston speed: 88mm stroke at 8200rpm is 24.1 m/s 88mm stroke at 8500rpm is 24.9 m/s 88mm stroke at 8863rpm is 26.0 m/s rev limit: whatever you think is safe but you probably don't want a piston going at 26 m/s (or you built your car right and you do) |
by far the most interesting stroker first!
FYI the 4g63 and 4g64 can interchange many parts. the blocks are both the same more or less except for bore difference and deck height difference. 4g64 2.4 "big block" "stroker" 4g64 2.4 specifications block: 4g64 bore: 86.5mm (bore is dictated by the piston/block selection) stroke: 100mm (stroke is dictated by crank) deck height: 6mm cross sectional area of piston: ~5877mm^2 overall displacement: ~2.35L rod length: 150mm (most of the time) rod/stroke ratio: 1.5:1 piston speed: 100mm stroke at 7200rpm is 24.0 m/s 100mm stroke at 7500rpm is 25.0 m/s 100mm stroke at 7800rpm is 26.0 m/s rev limit: whatever you think is safe but you probably don't want a piston going at 26 m/s (or you built your car right and you do)
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
(Post 1591141)
when putting the 4g64 crank in the 4g63 block the rod angle changes and the piston speed with the stroked crank goes way up. Both of these put more stress on the crankshaft. I believe if the RPM of a stroked 4g63 engine is kept under 7,500 rpm using the Mitsu crank that it will live for a long period of time.
www.buschurracing.com companies: you can get products from any number of 4g63 tuners. road race service, magnus, buschur racing, automotosports, jackson auto machine etc. pistons: wiesco makes them among others... i can't name them all, if you have a suggestion i'll add it. cranks: mitsu uses a 100mm crank. crower uses a 102mm crank. any other cranks i'll gladly add them. rods:
Originally Posted by WOT
(Post 4180115)
for the most part, with off-the-shelf parts, without breaking the bank, most 2.3's & 2.4's are built using the same length rod, ~150mm in length / 5.90".
the piston pin height is different when using a 100mm stroke in either a 4g63 or 4g64 block. yeah, you can source out longer rods, utlizing a shorteer pin height in the piston to increase your rod ratio a bit, but it's going to cost quite a bit more. blocks: you need a 7 bolt block. 3g eclise will work. lancer ralliart 2.4 mivec sohc will work. any more to add let me know. head gasket: cometic makes customs. any other info here let me know. ---concerns--- oil squirters: a long debated topic, here are the two extremes
Originally Posted by TEC
(Post 3359759)
They provide cooling which really isn't needed for forged pistons. If you want cooling that bad opt for a rifle fed rod or have the tops of the pistons Swaintech Gold coated.
Also, cooler pistons do nothing in the way of allowing a more aggressive tune. The only thing that would cause a piston to deter a more aggressive tune is if your getting pre-ignition due to a sharp edge or something else on the valve reliefs. Oil squirters, especially in 4g63's, have a problem at times of sticking open or shut. When you add a squirter your really adding another potential problem to your engine. I've been building 4g63 stroker motors since 1996, back when we use to stock pistons and flycut down the tops of the pistons. Believe me when I say, avoid at all cost adding any more potential issues to your engine.
Originally Posted by SBR INC
(Post 3359664)
The down side to oil squirters is it robs oil from the main oil galley, which takes oil away form a few very important places :)
I have never used oil squirters in any of my personal motors since 1998. With that being said, I am not saying your average street/strip car should be without them, but they are not needed in the overall scheme of things. Mike Huml
Originally Posted by Migsubishi
(Post 4525201)
Always run squirters if the car is street driven. At lower rpms the oil pressure isn't that high so the pistons are not getting sprayed with oil. I would use the squirters in every engine I have. It provided extra cooling, lubricant and insurance, so you see you can't really go wrong by keeping them. I think Mitsubishi put squirters in turbo engines for a good reason. Notice the 2.4 block comes from an n/a car. Also did you notice that an n/a cars engine after an hr of driving is and will never be as hot as a turbo cars engine after 20min. of driving?
There in there for a reason guys! They can also be drilled and fitted into any 2.4 block. My 2.4 runs squirters and balance shafts! water pump: you need a 4g64 water pump or an evo pump with an adapter. magnus sells adapters.
Originally Posted by VTEC Killer
(Post 3344888)
the actual dimensions and bolt pattern of the galant/eclipse pump and EVO pump are different, maybe this bracket allows you to use your EVO pump instead of needing a galant/eclipse one. The galant/eclipse also uses 2 accessory belts instead of a single serpentine belt. 1 belt goes around the crank, idler, p/s pump and a/c compressor, the other goes around the crank, alternator and water pump. That could also be a reason for this bracket.
cam gears: you need 4g63 ADJUSTABLE cam gears. the increased deck height skews the "0" setting on the gears. you need to be able to dial this out. OR you could do things the "right" way and get your cams degreed.
Originally Posted by TEC
(Post 3359490)
Adjustable 4g63 cam gears advanaced 1/2 a tooth on both sides should put all your timing back into spec by my best calculation.
head gasket: if you don't find the stock 4g64 up to snuff you may have to get a custom one. rev limit: not an all revealing discussion but points to consider when choosing rev limit.
Originally Posted by Shaun@SG
(Post 2510179)
Here you are assuming that you will be operating at engine speeds equal to the stock stroke engine. This assumption should not be made. Comparisons should be made with massflow normalized where the stroker is at a large advantage. Engine speed is by far the largest factor since inertial loads increase as a square of it.
Stock 1997cc Bore---------------------------------------------------- 3.346" Stroke-------------------------------------------------- 3.464" Redline------------------------------------------------- 8500 RPM Volumetric flow at 100% VE*---------------------- 300 CFM Mean piston speed---------------------------------- 4772 FPM Peak piston speed----------------------------------- 8035 FPM Peak piston acceleration [TDC (tension) ]------- 4597 G Piston acceleration at BDC-------------------------- 2512 G Stroker 2370cc Bore---------------------------------------------------- 3.385" Stroke-------------------------------------------------- 4.016" Redline------------------------------------------------- 7168 RPM Volumetric flow at 100% VE*---------------------- 300 CFM Mean piston speed---------------------------------- 4664 FPM Peak piston speed----------------------------------- 7996 FPM Peak piston acceleration [TDC (tension) ]------- 3974 G Piston acceleration at BDC-------------------------- 1884 G *100% value for ease of calculation. Flowrate equalized between both examples. 1) Mean piston speed on the 2.0 is higher by 2% 2) Peak piston acceleration on the 2.0 is higher by 16% at TDC, 34% at BDC. 3) Not only is the engine experiencing these higher loads, but it is experiencing them at a rate faster by 18% . Finite cycle life of all components is being used up quicker. This is true. However, like I have mentioned, there is no need to turn a stroker engine to matching RPM since it has a flow advantage at lower RPM. Equal power, at lower RPM. |
4g63 100mm crank stroker 2.3
4g63 2.3 specifications block: 4G63 bore: 85mm stroke: 100mm deck height: 0 piston cross sectional area: ~5675mm^2, overall displacement: 2.25L rod length: 150mm rod/stroke ratio: 1.5:1 piston speed: 100mm stroke at 7200rpm is 24.0 m/s 100mm stroke at 7500rpm is 25.0 m/s 100mm stroke at 7800rpm is 26.0 m/s rev limit: whatever you think is safe but you probably don't want a piston going at 26 m/s (or you built your car right and you do)
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
(Post 1591141)
when putting the 4g64 crank in the 4g63 block the rod angle changes and the piston speed with the stroked crank goes way up. Both of these put more stress on the crankshaft. I believe if the RPM of a stroked 4g63 engine is kept under 7,500 rpm using the Mitsu crank that it will live for a long period of time.
www.buschurracing.com blocks: mitsubishi 4g63. your blown 2.0 stock block turns into this motor. cranks: mitsubishi 4g64 or any of the various other remanufactured cranks. pistons: you need to get 2.3 specific pistons. lots of people make them. --concerns-- pistons: the piston is less tall because you're increasing stroke without any increased deck height. this clumps certain piston rings together. unless:
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
(Post 2625639)
I don't want to give any engine building information away but doing a stroker 2 liter doesn't put the rings into any harm Keith. The ring set we use in our stroker is the exact same ring set that is in John's car, exact. We also did not have to move them up any closer than normal to the top. SSHHH, it's all secret;)
David Buschur www.buschurracing.com rod ratio: possible sidewall loading increase.
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
(Post 1591141)
Also, the stroker kit is NOT a drop in. The block has to be clearanced for the rods, the #3 cylinder is extremely close no matter what rod you choose and with some the engine will not even turn over.
David Buschur www.buschurracing.com rev limit: see what db says above. |
4g63 94mm crank stroker 2.2
4g63 2.2 specifications block: 4G63 bore: 85mm stroke: 94mm deck height: 0 piston cross sectional area: ~5675mm^2, overall displacement: 2.133L rod length: 156mm (at least for gsc's rod/stroke ratio: 1.66:1 (at least for gsc's) piston speed: 94mm stroke at 7800rpm is 24.44 m/s 94mm stroke at 8200rpm is 25.69 m/s 94mm stroke at 8500rpm is 26.63 m/s rev limit: whatever you think is safe but you probably don't want a piston going at 26 m/s (or you built your car right and you do) --sources-- blocks: mitsubishi 4g63. your blown 2.0 stock block turns into this motor. cranks: jun, tomei, cosworth, gsc, magnus, jam etc. there's a lot of crank manufacturers. pistons: --concerns-- cranks: you're in the world of custom cranks and you need to consider billet, chrome oly, nitrided and all that stuff. pistons: 4g64 88mm crank DEstroker 2.1 4g64 2.1 specifications block: 4G64 bore: 86.5mm stroke: 88mm deck height: 6mm piston cross sectional area: ~5877mm^2 overall displacement: 2.068544 L rod length: 162mm (at least for magnus's) rod/stroke ratio: 1.84:1 (at least for magnus's) piston speed: 88mm stroke at 8000rpm is 23.467 m/s 88mm stroke at 8500rpm is 24.93 m/s 88mm stroke at 9000rpm is 26.4 m/s rev limit: whatever you think is safe but you probably don't want a piston going at 26 m/s (or you built your car right and you do) --sources-- blocks: mitsubishi 4g64. cranks: stock mitsubishi evo crank does the job on the 4g64 block. many people make stock evo cranks. pistons: --concerns-- cranks: if you're in the world of custom cranks and you need to consider billet, chrome oly, nitrided and all that stuff. pistons: rev limit: when you're starting to turn really high rpms you need to make sure everything else in the car can function at that speed, not just the pistons/rods. pay attention to accesories, cooling and oiling. |
Thanks dude :) I think this thread should be a sticky
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2 Attachment(s)
info
Originally Posted by SBR INC
(Post 3364672)
As promised, I am going to have a few weights for you today!
Pistons are on the scale now, and will be listed here in a bit. As I get more pistons on the shelf, we will be sure to yank them out of the box and weigh them! All rods are EVO spec rods. MGP - high performance, aluminum rod, proven in 1200 plus HP in 4G63T. Manley 14022-4 - H beam Eagle CRS5900MB3D - H beam Stock Evo Manley 14403-4 - I beam, stock length Pauter - MIT-220-480-1500F Manley 14499SB2 - I beam, long rod 162 mm Mike Huml
Originally Posted by SBR INC
(Post 3365398)
As promised, more will come as we have more stock, but here we go... sorry pics are so big, damn IT guy!
Mahle - 85.5 mm 2.3l Wiseco K596M85 - 85 mm 2.3l Wiseco K596M855 - 85.5mm 2.3l Wiseco K596M86 - 86 mm 2.3l Wiseco Custom 2 - 87 mm 2.1l De-stroke 9:1 HD forging Wiseco K595M85 - 85 mm 2.0l Wiseco Cutom 1 - 87 mm 2.1l De-stroke 9:1 standard forging Wiseco K595M855 - 85.5mm 2.0l Stock Evo Mike Huml |
There is an error up there. The magnus long rod 2.4 uses 156mm rod not 162. The 162mm is for the long rod 2.1. I was one of the first to use the 156mm Magnus Pauter rods about 4 years ago before Marco redesigned them so there wouldnt be so much interference with the oil galleys.
jeff |
corrections are welcome. no debating in this thread. if you have an issue PM ME don't mess up this thread.
bump for a big revision... can someone please HELP ME add more info on pistons rods etc, like what can be sourced from where? special considerations. |
Also, the stroker kit is NOT a drop in. The block has to be clearanced for the rods, the #3 cylinder is extremely close no matter what rod you choose and with some the engine will not even turn over. so, if i get a 4g64 crank.. rods.. and any type of stroker pistons.. am i gonna have to take my block to the machine shop?? i thought it was a drop in, ive seen various threads of 2.3 buildups and non of them required anything like this! |
i don't know but it doens't look lik ei'm getting much help huh?
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Do you know the specs on the 2.1 "destroker"? (4G64 "big block", 88mm 4G63 crank, long rods of unknown length, pistons of unknown dimensons...)
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sorry i was workin' on it and didn't change the title yet
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very informative post {thumbup}
you havent posted in the evo owners thread @ pbnation lately, whats the deal ;) |
Good Thread. sticky?
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Originally Posted by Evology
(Post 4842485)
didnt get this part quite well, can someone explain this??
so, if i get a 4g64 crank.. rods.. and any type of stroker pistons.. am i gonna have to take my block to the machine shop?? i thought it was a drop in, ive seen various threads of 2.3 buildups and non of them required anything like this! Good thread, I just spent the last 3 hrs putting together the info myself. This will save me alot of time next time I forget the numbers. |
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