Dynoed brog warner 362
 

Tuned by mike @ mid atlantic motorsports, maryland. Using ecu flash. Car was on c-16/pump gas mix.
Made 555@ 32psi but needing a second pump, i was running out of fuel.
backed it down to 29 and made 524 with pretty safe a/f and timing.

Mods are in sig, and this is on a stock block. Turbo is pretty laggy but u cant tell at the strip. street....different story, but nothing a lil brake boost cant fix{thumbup}
http://i16.tinypic.com/7yob5s8.jpg
http://i3.tinypic.com/8eqef81.jpg
View My Video

thats sweet.....enjoy!!!

nice numbers... boost is rock solid!

is this similar to a 50 trim or a 35r?

it flows 65 lbs/min, so like a 35R yes.

So how do you like it? Does this turbo have the ETT on it? Or is this just the standard Borg Warner. I have been thinking about trying a new ETT Borg Warner turbo and see how they work. I know that power up top is supposed to be allot better then the Garrett turbos but im wondering how the spool up is being journal bearing. Think there is another thread somewhere where sombody is supposed to be running tests on this but havent heard anything yet about it.

Anyway nice numbers very impressive for the mods you have {thumbup}

Chris

Spoolup on the slow side at 5800-5900rpms :(

do you have alcohol? the car is pretty lean.

Ya but is this the turbo with Extended Tip Technology?

Just wondering if this is one of there new designs? If this is the new design i was really hoping they would spool a little quicker. :crap:

The 264's specified in your modlist, are HKS or JUN?

I definitely would like to know more on it also. I was really looking for someone to test on out. Like 2k4Evo inquired is it a Borg Warner with the ETT or no ?

Good numbers on pump gas but #1 A little too lean #2 Spoolup way too late for my liking.

Just to clarify, THIS IS NOT ON PUMP GAS, this is C-16, hence the afr and high boost. There is some 93 in the mix, but not enough to dilute the properties of C16.

Ohhhhhhhhhhh, that makes alot more sense. I still dont get cised for the spooling properties on this turbo.

Really good power on a stock ECU, but the spoolup looks really slow. What made you go this route over the more common 35R. Not trying to be critical just curious.

Yea wondering same thing?

Finally some solid info on one of these! Good numbers but dayum on the boost threshold!

good numbers keep up the good work

Extended Tip Technology: If you look at the trailing edge of the compressor wheel from the side, the majority of wheels are vertical. The Extended Tip leans outward, so \_/ instead of |_| This enables the wheel to create a higher pressure ratio for a given mass flow rate. So in that respect, it sort of/very little helps spool, but spool is mostly related to how fast you can get the wheel spin up, and that's probably more related to the bearings and materials the wheels are made from. Since the extended tip wheel has more mass, it sorta/very little hurts spool.

So basically, it just lets you get to a higher pressure ratio for given mass flow rate... makes for a good drag turbo I guess?

nice....{thumbup}.

that spool is horrendous but glad you like it.

the way i look at it is the ETT stuff enables you to run a smaller turbo and make the same power. so smaller lighter internals means faster spool, but thanks to the ETT reduce choke at the top end, and still getting stonking top end.

thanks Chris.

some pics of an extended tip compressor for you all to better understand the concept.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d.../et50trim1.jpg
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d.../et50trim2.jpg

Thanks Martin, I was wondering exactly where the extended tip came into play whether it was the compressor cover or the compressor itself. Looks like that one saw some debris from the top picture?

Yes the turbo is simular the the 35r in size, just a hair bigger. it does have the extended tip. I choice it just to go a different route to see what kinda numbers it would do, since alot of fast pro drag racers use borg warner. it is laggy but you have to think i dont use those rpms in the quarter mile. but on the street, its nothing a down shift or brake boost cant fix.
Also i have a few things i dont think are helping me in the spool up department:
stock block,MAS,ECU,manifold, and im also running the .85 exhaust housing, and its non ball bearing.
i really believe that if i build the block with 9:1, AEM, and a full race divided manifold, and maybe even some s2 cams it would move that graph to the left....how much? i have no idea.

and yes they told me that the extended tip would help on spool, not sure if its true or not, but im happy with the power it made.

also im comparing my car to the peak boost evo. not sure what its making now, but it was a very simular set up, it was a stock block evo 8, with same fuel set up as mine. but it was running a better manifold, hydra EMS, hks280, and a 67mm turbo (mine is 62), @ 30psi it made 522hp and 400ft lbs.

PS. i have HKS cams, sorry i need to fix my sig

this is a good turbo for when you upgrade all the other stuff later on, but the problem is your powerband is very slim and while you may be able to get it to spool up OK for your liking anytime you start at 6000+ on a stock motor your only going to be able to get maybe 1500-1800 RPM of power. I'd say a well setup 50 trim would pull on you very hard on the street until 100+ mph.

I'm not sure you can tell how a car will spool on the road based on a dyno run.

Also he says he's running a larger exhaust housing than the usual .63 a/r GT35's.

id take that spool up if the powerband carries to 9500 w/o dropping off.. you also cant compare the spool up 100% off a dyno sheet.. you need boost reference on there to really see where it does make full boost..

not sure what the .jpg has to do with the quote???:confused:

if you didn't notice, the dyno sheet has boost on it.

yeah im blind..LOL was looking only at the top 2 lines.. thanks!!

full boost before 6k as long as it pulls all the way up top isnt bad if your looking to drag race it... Alot of guys complain of 35r's being to laggy for street so this might not be what they are looking for..

Brog vs. Borg

Yeesh, lag monster.

Most 35R's hit full boost on or about 5000rpms.

Add ball bearing option and MIVEC and proficient tuning and you get spoolup results like this.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...lani_mivec.jpg

TTP, is that 4th gear? Which 35 (housings, etc...)

How does the #s on that dyno relate to a dynojet?

I bet if this turbo was a ball bearing, it would help with spool a substantial amount..

TTP...Was the EGT not hooked up?

AMS's dyno reads as high as a normal dynojet I think their's is called a "dynomite" but I haven't seen any track numbers with dyno numbers from AMS cars.

Still a turd! lol sick numbers but dave's car is still "faster".

I am using a BW S366 and while breaking in the motor on a conservative pump tune with a 6 psi base spring, I still spooled at about 4700 RPM. After I break the motor in and put the 20 psi spring in, spool should be better. I also have improved my timing curves and have dropped spool another 150 rpm from this chart. This spring is more than maxed as you are usually not supposed to run more than 2X the spring pressure.

Any reason you guys didnt use the S256?

I originally was going for 700+ WHP so the S256 or 258 would not meet my needs. Once I found I was going to be a daddy I scaled back the HP requirements of the car to maintain decent reliability. The set up is still there in case I want to turn up the wick later on. It is only slightly laggier than the Holset turbo that was on the car previously that made 521 WHP at 28 PSI, and is still only about 300 RPM slower than the 57 trim that was on the car at first. David from Bullseye has just sent me the new .70 A/R V band turbine housing, so I will be switching to that shortly to let the turbo breathe a bit better as it currently has the DSM style .55 housing they offer. I really don't think spool will be effected very much but we will see. Also another think to keep in mind is that I am using a cast manifold for street-ability, using an equal length header would also probably decrease spool time and add a few ponies. I think these turbos are great options over the GT series turbos and will offer many more options then are currently available from the GT line by Garrett.

We have an S256 on our buddies car. It hits like a bat out of hall but initial spool is a bit delayed.

That's unfortunate. I had high hopes for the S256 and gave this turbo great consideration, but the little info available on these pieces with respect to Evos just isn't promising. With the green/50trim/3076 already well established there's nothing compelling about this offering to diverge from the norm.

Supposedly, BW is releasing BB turbos in the (near?) future. Now a twin-scroll ball-bearing extended tip S256 sounds like a winner.

Do you have a dyno chart of this S256?

according to the info i have been told they have no plan for a BB turbo and these turbos are supposed to have the same or better spool..

The only downside to the BW line of turbos that I see is they are not readily available in a kit... If you are a Do It Yourself-er or you have a shop piece together a custom kit, these turbos are great. They have been proven in many other applications but have not quite caught on in the Evo market due to the market domination by AMS, Buschur and Full-Race.... There is nothing wrong with this as they provide quality products and the kits are easy for the average owner to install, but since they are already producing the GT kits it would simply cost more for them to redesign the kit to fit the BW turbos. If the demand for the BW products appears, one of the vendors would quickly provide a kit. A while back I saw SLS beginning to produce a kit, I am not sure what happened there though.

That's what we were told too.... not so much. It doesn't spool faster than a T04E 50trim but it does hit harder. It has a hit like no other turbo we have ever felt in that size range.

dude we've offered the S256 in a kit for about a year now. lol

The turbo isn't a bad turbo, it hits like a bat out of hell. We have just been working on getting the spool down. Once we do it will be one hell of a contender.

I haven't heard anything about going BB either.

How did you do at the strip?

lol hes pointing out ive been spelling it wrong, my fault
BORG WARNER, maybe a mod can fix the thread title for me?

not good, just got back. when mike tuned it he must of forgot to put my rev back to 8200rpm i need it there, even though my graph dropps im still making usable power to 8k( he just lets out early). so i was bouncing the rev in 3rd (cause im use to pulling it all the way to 8k) and hitting the rev the last 100ft or so, basicly giving up the run.
still got a 11.6@125 out of it, i dont have the cable or lap top yet. so i had no way to fix it at the track. besides the rev limitier and the cold ass track (1.8 60') the car was mmmovin.

looking good man.
Congrats!

very true, i have vids. just cant post the ones i got ( pm me). the car is laggy if im cruising at 3k and floor it. but who the hell does that?
if this was a rally car or auto cross car, yes that graph would suck. but i dont do that.

Are you shifting early with 1-2? My rev limiter is set at 7800 on my stock motor and never have a problem going through the 1/4. I wouldn't pull to 8200 too often with the stock motor. I can't see your graph from where i'm at, so I can't really see how laggy your set up is. Seems like your making good power on the dyno. Although, I think their dyno reads kinda high. Even though I ran my best et with a trap of only 125mph, my best was a 128 on the previous run. I only made 430whp on DTM's mustang. I will give you a couple mph for bouncing off the rev limiter. But with 550whp, you should be well over 130mph. I'm pretty sure she's still a beast to drive. Enjoy your car :mitsu:

rev that sucker!!

Stock torque to yield rodbolts?

1. im totally aware of not pulling the car too 8200 too often on stock motor.
2. i do short shift 1-2, the rest i take to 7800-7900, i only take the car to 8000-8200 in fourth.
3. i didnt have a problem going through the 1/4 too when i had 440 hp and 7800k rev. now i have over 500 and my rev was lowered to 7500-7600k
4. im not on 550...im running 524. which in my opion should not be over 130

maybe its just me but 430hp and 128 dont sound right, unless u and your car is a couple hundred pounds lighter than me.

His 430 was on a mustang though...should be much higher on a dynojet!

true, but he said atlantics dyno reads high. but its the mustang dyno that reads lower. the only one ive seen read pretty accurate is SP in chicago.
but it sounds like a bad ass 50trim though.

That could be your problem. You need to shift a little higher on 1-2. Try doing that and you wont bounce of the rev limiter or have to take it to 8+k. Well you have 555whp in your signature and it doesnt add up when you trapped 125 with that much hp. Again, you should be over 130. My car is a full weight car that I drive to work everyday. I trapped 128 only one time and the rest are 125-127 on pump/alky.

Holy smokes VIP comes out the woods :lol: post some vids graphs of the s256 in action....did you ever get any dyno numbers? I remember you guys were playing with the turbine housings trying to get spool down...I remember you said you got 20 Psi @ 4000 RPMS

Sounds like you will have a monster on your hands when you get it dialed in.

i did make 555 but i dont trust it until i get a second pump, it was turned down to 28-29psi when i ran it(520ish hp). which i believe it should be around 127-129. and i know i lost a couple mph hitting the rev limiter. And thanks for the tip, ill try that next time i go to the track, but i do definitly need to raise the rev...i liked it were it was, not were its at now.

It should run pretty good, but I would like to put some miles on the motor first. About 600 more miles to go!

How about a TS S256?

At least I know now where to go locally for a LICP/DP if I ever decide this turbo is worth it...

[QUOTE=Exciting News;5012727]How about a TS S256? QUOTE]

i think that would be a great product! also if you guys want BBcores for these turbo i think forced inductions are coming out with some soon. also they can build a 'S' version of the turbo that has a smaller (physically) housing to fit into tight spaces.

finally i was told that the advantage of the BW turbos is the ETT. this tech allows a smaller turbo to make more power at the top end, i think by raducing choke thanks to a better breathing hotside. this means a smaller turbo can make the same power as a slightly larger one. this is where the spool advantage comes from.

again this isonly what i have been lead to believe and if anyone can correct me then thanks. :)

Chris.

[QUOTE=chuntington101;5015782]Yeah, I spoke to Forcedinductions guys and they have some BB FI58's already done. They are installing some on some Grand Nationals. I know I spoke to 1 Grand National owner and he is running the FI66-BB and he swapped from a GT67-DBB to it. He says the FI66 spools the same, makes more low end power and boost doesn't drop on the top end.

I have a S256 borgwaner on my 03 evo and ran 11.6 on pump gas 91 octane.

I like the turbo

laggy.

please tell me which produces more accurate load, uses newer technology, and creates realistic on road situations on the rollers. The Mustang doesn't real low, it reads accurate. The AMS and others read high, as evidence by their unwillingness to let some DTM customers show the large gap. Just because a type of dyno is the "industry standard" doesn't mean it's the most accurate.

The Borg Warner turbos are great for drag racing. The top end is excellent, but a little slower to spool.

For road racing, the Borg Warner S256 seems like a good fit. Anyone have a dyno of the S256?

Just go with a 56mm ETT wheel and ball bearing. That should make them spool nicely.