Best cams that don't negatively influence bottom/mid and response
 

Hi,

I have a Evo 8, mod list is further down.

I am on a hunt for some cams which will not negatively influence the bottom end and mid range like the Kelford 272's do (from what I can see in AMS cam test dyno graphs).

I like the look of HKS 272's but there seems to be a considerable trade-off in top end vs. Kelfords with not much gain in low/mid to compensate.

I am going to be running a TD05HRA-16G6-10.T 6.5 TME turbo so I am after response and spool. If I was to loose a tiny bit of this (not a very noticeable amount) I would be prepared to go the Kelford route but I am unsure of the reality of the situation.

I would prefer drive-ability to be smooth and I see that the Kelfords have a bit of lope, whereas with HKS you can dial this out almost completely.

Basically I want response and spool but I want to keep my top end and not have it feel like it's dying out as it does with the stock 8 turbo. Someone suggested I get HKS cams and dial them in to +2/0 for improved bottom/mid range, can anyone shed some light on this?

Below are my mods:

6.5TME Turbo (TD05HRA-16G6-10.5T)
Aftermarket actuator, turbo outlet pipe and LICP
Ported Exhaust Manifold
Map Rev2 o2, 100CEL Cat and Full 3" Exhaust
FIC1050 Injectors
MR BOV
GM 3 Port
Omni 4 Bar MAP
AEM Uego 'Inline' Wideband Controller
No gauges
Stock cams
E85 (Varies between 73 - 85 actual ethanol %)

Have you looked at the GSC cams they are very good cams.

http://www.power-division.com/home.php

GSC S1 or Tomei Poncams. or Even the Tomei Poncam-R.

All better options than HKS 272's?

Certainly are.

Another thing to think about... if your really worried about low end, you should look into a 2.4L shortblock. I know it seems crazy, but for a budget build they can be had quite cheap these days and will make a big difference to bottom end.

http://www.maperformance.com/maperfo...vo-stage1.html

^ Something like that can be had very cheap and you will pickup HUGE lowdown torque. Beats pissing your money away on little mods that in the scheme of things do nothing.

A cheap brutal street setup would be a high compression 2.4L shortblock + GSC S2 Cams w/ GSC Springs and Retainers + Evo 9 Turbo on E85. Would spool 3-500rpm sooner then your current setup + have ALOT more topend. And TBH, it wouldnt cost all that much. $3-4k for bottom end, $1k for top end, $600 for E9 turbo. So for around $7k installed you would have a car which hits full boost around 2,500-2,800RPM with EPIC drivability and make around 270-280kW... depending on how hard you pushed the turbo. Oh and you would be able to sell your original engine for at least $1k.

If I had my time again, its what I would have done. Cheap and to the point. Wont win drag wars but would be a dream on the street or hill climb.

From what I've heard gsc s1's are slightly less agressive than 272's and gsc s2's are slightly more. For the daily driven enthusiast gsc s1's should be good enough.

Keep in mind that a lot of what you're asking depends a lot on how your tune is set up. You can make 280 cams idle normally with some tweaking. From the sheets/reviews I've read I would shy away from his cams. They also tend to be more mil than the durations suggest. I currently run kelford 264's. they idle well, and I would venture to say the power band leans to the low- mid which would be good for road racing/ auto cross on a 16g turbo. I'm not saying a 272 wouldn't do just as well, but from what I understand the time turbo leans more to low end spool than high end capability of the 9 turbo.

A lot of folks run gsc cams and like was previously stated the s1 series is a little more mild then kelford 272s so s1s may be what you're looking for. Just my .02

Tomei Type-R's lope hard on a non mivec, looking at duration at 1mm lift which is how you want to quick-compare cams (in addition to lift) they are only slightly less aggressive than the kelford 272's.

General rule is for every 10* added duration you move the power band to the right 500rpm. My picks for added low/mid/top without losses, would be Tomei Poncam 260's, Kelford 264's or if you are prepared to change valve springs/retainers, Jun 264's. The S1's are also worth considering, they are about as high duration as you want to go though without moving the power band to the right much.

If you decide to go with the kelford 264s ill sell you mine. I'm switching to s2's decided I wanted bigger power.

I agree with you 100% but like you I've now gone too far.

I have all the stuff in my OP so I might as well just throw it all in and call it a day.

The Tomei Poncams look good, does anyone recommend adjusting the timing like this guy has done?
I noticed he has a lot more lope than they do on the standard config but perhaps it's worth it?

Also, does anyone think the TME 6.5 Ti-Alloy turbo will fail to deliver in the top end department? My friend has a 9 on E85 and it pulls hard from 3.5 - 7.5k without any noticeable reduction in power. Is my turbo gonna die in the ass at 6K RPM? Is the bottom end, increased spool and response worth the trade off vs. the 9 turbo?

Should I just get a 9 turbo?

Thanks guys, lots of good info and knowledgeable people in this thread :D

I ran my HKS staggered 280/272 combo at, +2i/0e, for a long time when my VIII had a Ti-Al RS turbo w/10.5 (ported). I loved it.

Whereas, with the stock cams It would spool to 20# by 2700. With the staggered HKS at +2/0 it spooled to 20# by 2900.

The tradeoff with the advanced cam timing is living with the funky idle however.

How was the top end?

The 280/272 combo straight up is better than 272's on top end. But, set advanced to +2/0 you lose about 10-12 WHP up top versus the retarded settings like -3/-2 for example. But midrange torque is better with +2/0.

Sounds good. Do I need springs and retainers for that kind of setup?

I am not advocating this setup. The HKS grind is old-school. The lift is relatively mild(10.2?) Which is o.k. with an unported head. You can run stock springs and retainers. I have for 5 years to 7500 RPM.

With cam timing dialed into the more advanced settings it does spool the turbo though. If you want to go drag racing you can just retard the cams to -3/-3, or -3/-2.

The only question is whether or not you can live with the racebike idle?