US vs Italy: How can you guys achieve so big power figure?
 

Hi everybody,

I'm a Evo IX owner from Northern Italy.

My car is currently running:
- 3.0 full straight exhaust
- O2 dump housing
- Tubolar exhaust manifold
- Polished and ported stock intake manifold
- 70mm s90 TB
- Bigger intercooler
- HKS cone filter

- Boost driven by AVCr
- OEM mapped ECU

Boost:
- 1.6bar mid range (3.000 - 5.000)
- 1.5bar at 6.000
- 1.4bar at 7.000.
- Rev limit at 7.700 with c. 1.3bar.

Everything else on the engine is stock (turbo evo IX, MAF, injectors, fuel pump, cams, etc).

This is a rather common set-up in Italy for a step 1 lancer evo.
Power figures we achieve usually on the Evo IX turbo (series 80) with such mods are in the range of 360-380 hp at the crank (!!!).

Whilst you guys achieve such power figure at the wheels! This is of course a massive difference.

In order to better understand power gains, we usually dyno the car before and after the tunes and stock cars (Evo IX) usually put down c. 280-290 hp at the crank when they are completely stock so the gains are c. 80-100 hp which is a very good gain.

I was wondering how can you achieve + 150hp over stock figure, in US, on stock turbo and stock engine?

Just few final comments:

- I'm on stock injectors and stock fuel pump because given boost levels, AFR levels (mid 11 or even lower to stay safe) and EGT (hardly above 900 C°) there is no need for an upgrade to fuel system in my opinion. On the opposite side I read that in US many of you go bigger injectors and uprated fuel pump even with stock turbo set-ups (series 80), but the question is how can you get stock turbo to blow such high amount of air to open the need for more fuel (and therefore change fuel pump and injector)?

- For sure I'm missing a good set of cams (GSC S1 perhaps) but here in Italy this produce c. +10hp (max +15hp) and we're still far away from the figures you can achieve in US.

The answers I'm guessing are:
- Speed density mapping can result in higher performance than stock MAF mapping
- You guys reached a better overall knowledge of 4g63 ECU and your electronic tuning is better then ours

I've seen really some outstanding result from English Racing.. I can't even understand how it's possible to put down 5xx HP figure on a series 80 which should flow a max of 44lb /min.

I'm opening this topic just to understand what your opinion is and if you think it could be possible to have one of the top guys in here to remotely map my car since I recently bought a 2.0 tactrix cable and have ecuflash on my laptop (but no idea really on how to map a car!). :D

Cheers.

I'm no guru but if you're looking for a remote tuner the only one I know of that tunes overseas remotely is TSCOMPTUNED.

Also I haven't seen a stock turbo that made 500hp so I don't know where you saw that. Maybe an inflated VirtualDyno run but nothing legit that I know of. Again I am no guru though.

Good Luck.

on E85 it is easy,on 93oct its another story...

keep in mind though that rate in US is aki not ron,
btw what type of gas do you use?

Michael.

My IX made 355whp tuned by turbo trix(by previous owner) intake/ 3 in turbo back/manual boost controller. Stock everything else on 93 oct. What Oct. gas you guys have, just curious.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...92-octane.html

Hi, this is below 500 hp at the crank but for sure well above 450 (crank). I would say closer to 500 than 450.

Best fuel you can find here in Italy is 100 Octane RON, 98 is also quite common (RON), 95 octane RON is the base fuel. I go half of the times 100 Octane RON and half 98 Octane RON only based on the luck (if I find 100 Octane I always go for it)..

I googled the conversion and should be:

95 RON = 91 AKI
98 RON = 93 AKI
100 RON = 94ish AKI

Have a look at my sig for a great tuner who does awesome remote tunes for overseas customers, he is in the US and I'm in Australia and the time difference wasn't a problem. If you have any questions about remote tunes or with my experiences with remote tuners feel free to PM me.

As far as the power difference between your tune and what you see with tuned cars on EvoM. You need to have all the elements in place to extract maximum power, injectors and your fuel pump are probably the first things you want to look at as you start to tune, especially the fuel pump.

As far as comparing your tune and someone else's it's easy to get caught up in the maximum number. What you want to consider is the driveability of your car, the torque curve and shape of the lines on the dyno sheet. A good tuner will be more concerned with these aspects of your tune, and with keeping your engine in one piece, than with some "big" number on a piece of paper.

(for some reason my sig is not showing up on this post so for anyone who's interested my tuner is Pure Drive Performance in Colarado)

looks like your limiting factor is the tune like what other people said. you definitely need atleast a walbro 255 then if you add cams and up the boost even on stock turbo you will need injectors. most tuned cars here in the us running 93oct are tuned higher than 1.6bar(23psi). Of course that is dependent on the fuel. good luck and let us know how it goes.

Evos are inexpensive enough in the US to attract insecure HP inflating youths, risky one pass tunes and a fairly lucrative supporting industry with tons of parts and tech to offer.

That's the real big question.
Let's forget for one second the peak boost at lower rpm which is delivering a lot of torque and let's focus on the high rpms boost (where the max power is reached):

At 6.000 rpm I've got c. 1.5 bar (slightly less than 22 psi). I'm only very little below (c. 1 psi) compared to the 402whp tune in this 3ed:

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...92-octane.html

Please note I'm using this as an example but it's pretty much the same also for other cars I've seen in the US lancer forums.

So I'm just 1 PSI below but my AFR and my EGT dont show any need for bigger injectors and bigger fuel pump. I stand at 11.5 or even below and below 900 C° EGT (1650 F°) unless I push hard around the track but even there I can see max 920 C° (1690 F°) no more.
So really at those boost level I don't need a fuel system upgrade but:

- I'm running quite close to the boost level you guys usually run
- I'm putting down much lower figures in terms of power and torque both from the peak and from the average stand point

As far as power delivery and torque curves are concerned I'm totally aware that max HP figure is not as important as the average power the engine can deploy in a given rpm range.

I race for fun the car in the Italian Time Attack series (on track) and I often go for a ride on the mountains (Alps) just for fun. It is not my daily drive and I'm totally focused on driveability rather than peak figure.
But still even considering average power / torque in a given range (lets say 5000-7500 on the track, and 4000-7000 on the mountains) I'm far from your results.

And please note that it is not just me, everybody in Italy just reach with their evos my kind of figures.

Really can not understand where the difference lies given boost level is not so far...but still you reach such levels of air (oxygen in combustion chamber) that you need to uprate a lot your fuel system while I simply don't see that need but at the same time I do not reach any performance level near yours.....

I could decide to add a fuel pump and injectors to my car but it would be a random choice at the moment given I don't have any AFR issue..

Maybe you guys have a much more oxygenated air than us in Italy??? :lol::lol:

You are right I also saw higher boost level than mine, but at low rpms where peak torque is but not peak power.

Where you reach the peak power on EvoIX stock turbo (6.500-7.000 rpm) everybody have the same boost level. c. 23 PSI.
I guess that is the mechanical limit of the turbo.
So where the max power is reached I'm not far away from US tuned evos.
Maybe 1 PSI maybe 2 PSI max..that is not explaining the big difference in my opinion..:)

That car has a big intake manifold and big TB along with cams. I didn't see you mention anything about your cams above but that would account for a lot of the difference right there. Most people see about 30whp gain going that route over stock, so convert that to crank and there you go.

I can't say enough about the tune either. There are a couple shops over here that could remote tune for you. I think at one time English themselves even offered it. Get in touch with them and find out on a level field how your car compares.

I gave you the answer you seem to want, now stop trolling and go to the ECUflash forum.

First time ever someone tells me I'm trolling in a forum..oh well there's a first time for everything. :D
My nickname is the same around the forums, I'm on the lancerregister (UK) in the italian forum lancerevoclub (NEWpayway87, because I lost the old account) and if you want we can become bestfriend on facebook.. :lol:

Not trolling, just trying to understand things...

Btw: I'm sure you know your answer has been the less useful / technical in this discussion..

Btw 2: not a user of ECUflash forum not even aware of its existence and totally not a user of ecuflash. I just sometime use evoscan to check knock..

Many thanks I just sent a PM to John Bradley

Are your quarter mile times higher also for cars with similar mods?

Some of the difference may just be due to differences between dynos.