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-   -   GTX3582r Short Runner TwinScroll Setup (https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/evo-engine-turbo-drivetrain/709625-gtx3582r-short-runner-twinscroll-setup.html)

240Z TwinTurbo Mar 15, 2015 10:23 AM

GTX3582r Short Runner TwinScroll Setup
 
As I often do, I got bored and decided to change my setup...AGAIN! I was running the Garrett V-band TwinScroll setup using the 1.01 a/r turbine housing and GTX3582r, which pulled like a bat out of hell on the topend at 33psi on 93octane. However, I did somewhat miss the super quick spool of the short runner setup I used to run with the GTX3576r. Therefore, I decided to somewhat merge the new setup with the old.

I went back to the short runner manifold, but I used the old 3" downpipe and once it made the 90deg bend under the oil pan I merged with the new 3.5" exhaust.

http://www.eng.fsu.edu/~jthagard/EVO.../downpipe1.JPG
http://www.eng.fsu.edu/~jthagard/EVO.../downpipe2.JPG

Below you can see the new setup and the specs are as follows:
Curt Brown 10:1 2L
GSC R2's w/ Kiggley Springs
ShortRunner TS manifold w/ 1.06 a/r T4 TS
GTX3582r
Haltech Platinum Pro PnP

http://www.eng.fsu.edu/~jthagard/EVO...ner/setup1.JPG
http://www.eng.fsu.edu/~jthagard/EVO...ner/setup2.JPG

My initial impressions are the ShortRunner spools like I remember and I am getting [email protected] rpm in 3rd gear and will post some logs later showing exact numbers. The car is currently running ~33psi and it definitely doesn't pull as hard on the top vs the 1.01 a/r Garrett V-band twin scroll setup, but the low end torque is amazing and the spool is fast for this size turbo. I will post more and hope to get it to the dyno soon.

Grimgrak Mar 15, 2015 11:20 AM

Why did you go 3 to 3.5 thats the reverse of what you want to get rid of turbulance. I dropped the exhaust after DP and saw no gain on the dyno so i'll be going about it the other way.

240Z TwinTurbo Mar 15, 2015 12:55 PM


Originally Posted by Grimgrak (Post 11411884)
Why did you go 3 to 3.5 thats the reverse of what you want to get rid of turbulance. I dropped the exhaust after DP and saw no gain on the dyno so i'll be going about it the other way.

I want the back pressure post turbo to be under 1psi so that is the reason for the 3.5" exhaust. I purchased all the 1/8" NPT bungs for the pressure and temperature sensors pre and post turbo, but due to the fact my GTR got a flat tire I needed to get the setup running quickly so I had a car to drive. I will go back and add the sensors later and report the data.

RWD4G63 Mar 16, 2015 05:25 AM

Very interesting stuff. Keep us updated, and obviously if you can make some comparison logs/virtual dynos, that would be cool to see.

240Z TwinTurbo Mar 16, 2015 06:15 PM


Originally Posted by RWD4G63 (Post 11412211)
Very interesting stuff. Keep us updated, and obviously if you can make some comparison logs/virtual dynos, that would be cool to see.

I have not been able to get the VD to work with the Haltech Platinum Pro PnP. However, I can show the spool differences, which are shown below and I lost ~500rpm with the new setup vs the old (both short runner twinscroll).

Runs are done in 3rd gear.

BEFORE: GTX3576R, S2s, 3" exhaust (27.3psi @ 3848rpm)
AFTER: GTX3582R, R2s, 3.5" exhaust (27.4psi @ 4351rpm)

http://www.eng.fsu.edu/~jthagard/EVO...s_GTX3582R.jpg

240Z TwinTurbo Mar 16, 2015 06:41 PM

Although I can't show VD results here are the time results based on the logs above:

BEFORE: 4515-8024rpm 3.57s
AFTER: 4502-8047rpm 3.26s

So the new setup pulls through 3rd gear from 4500-8000rpm 0.3s faster. Just to clarify the BEFORE / AFTER is comparing the Short Runner TwinScroll setups and not the Garrett V-band TwinScroll.

RWD4G63 Mar 17, 2015 05:10 AM


Originally Posted by 240Z TwinTurbo (Post 11412656)
I have not been able to get the VD to work with the Haltech Platinum Pro PnP. However, I can show the spool differences, which are shown below and I lost ~500rpm with the new setup vs the old (both short runner twinscroll).

Runs are done in 3rd gear.

BEFORE: GTX3576R, S2s, 3" exhaust (27.3psi @ 3848rpm)
AFTER: GTX3582R, R2s, 3.5" exhaust (27.4psi @ 4351rpm)

Ahhh yeah, VD is whatever when you have nice logs like this. Very interesting. Makes sense given the larger compressor wheel.


Originally Posted by 240Z TwinTurbo (Post 11412671)
Although I can't show VD results here are the time results based on the logs above:

BEFORE: 4515-8024rpm 3.57s
AFTER: 4502-8047rpm 3.26s

So the new setup pulls through 3rd gear from 4500-8000rpm 0.3s faster. Just to clarify the BEFORE / AFTER is comparing the Short Runner TwinScroll setups and not the Garrett V-band TwinScroll.

Definitely making some more power! You only had the V-band setup working correctly with the 3582 correct? That's what I'm most interested in seeing; the manifolds compared in spool and time to rpm.

240Z TwinTurbo Mar 17, 2015 10:19 AM


Originally Posted by RWD4G63 (Post 11412857)
You only had the V-band setup working correctly with the 3582 correct? That's what I'm most interested in seeing; the manifolds compared in spool and time to rpm.

I had the V-band setup working with both the GTX3576r and GTX3582r, but I did change the wastegate strategy when I went to the larger turbo. Essentially, with the GTX3576r I ran a single Tial 44mm that used a divider up to the valve to separate the exhaust pulses. However, I think the divider was pushing open the valve and causing a loss of spool so I went with twin Tial 38mm gates while switching to the larger turbo.

I will post some logs later and compare spool and time to rpm for the V-band setup vs the short runner setup with all else remaining equal. Curious how the results will stack up.

Grimgrak Mar 17, 2015 10:52 AM

Your going to have to specific which is 3 inch to 3.5 and which is 3.5 to 3 because I dont recall you having a 3.5 turbo back all the way.

240Z TwinTurbo Mar 17, 2015 01:53 PM


Originally Posted by Grimgrak (Post 11413109)
Your going to have to specific which is 3 inch to 3.5 and which is 3.5 to 3 because I dont recall you having a 3.5 turbo back all the way.

I am not sure I understand the question, but let me take a stab.

When I first ran the Short Runner TS setup with the GTX3576r I had a full 3" exhaust from the turbo back. When I swapped to the long runner V-band TS setup I had a full 3.5" exhaust from the turbo back. Since swapping back to the Short Runner TS setup I am running the original 3" downpipe, but once it takes the 90deg bend under the oil pan I transition to 3.5" all the way back. I hope this helps.

http://www.eng.fsu.edu/~jthagard/EVO.../downpipe1.JPG

03whitegsr Mar 17, 2015 02:28 PM

Interesting stuff. Your threads over the past couple years have really driven home the concept of matching the turbo AND manifold to your specific goals.

240Z TwinTurbo Mar 17, 2015 05:37 PM


Originally Posted by 03whitegsr (Post 11413267)
Interesting stuff. Your threads over the past couple years have really driven home the concept of matching the turbo AND manifold to your specific goals.

Thanks, it has been trial by fire:crap:

So here are the results comparing the long runner manifold with 1.01a/r Garrett V-band twinscroll vs the short runner manifold with 1.06a/r ATP T4 TS. That is the only difference except the short runner has a 3" downpipe before going to 3.5" exhaust, whereas the long runner ran a 3.5" off the turbo. Both running the GTX3582r.

Runs are done in 3rd gear.

BEFORE: Long Runner 1.01a/r Garrett V-band TS (27.4psi @ 5299rpm)
AFTER: Short Runner 1.06a/r ATP T4 TS (27.4psi @ 4351rpm)

One other data point for the 20psi guys.

BEFORE: Long Runner 1.01a/r Garrett V-band TS (20.0psi @ 4921rpm)
AFTER: Short Runner 1.06a/r ATP T4 TS (20.2psi @ 4079rpm)

http://www.eng.fsu.edu/~jthagard/EVO...r_GTX3582r.jpg

And now for the time to rpm data
BEFORE: LongRunner 5508-7924rpm 2.41s
AFTER: ShortRunner 5502-7979rpm 2.27s

:confused: My butt told me the long runner was faster, but the numbers don't lie.

So, with the long runner manifold and the GTX3576r I was at [email protected] on pump and based on the time to rpm data, the GTX3582r is making more power and spooling almost 900rpm sooner.

Grimgrak Mar 18, 2015 05:53 AM

This is almost like a giant slap accross the face to the fancy full race style ts manifold.

Time to do the wheel dyno again just to verify.
So you had a long runner 3.5 inch turbo back on the gtx3582. Yet going to a smaller dp AND shorter manifold you gained 500rpm spool. How does your long and short style compare to say a full race ts non front facing manifold?
I just bought the t3 gt30 ni resist 1.01 TS and am debating manifolds.
Still wanting to do a 3.5inch dp to 3 inch exhaust.
Your results have thrown a wrench into my decision tho....

94AWDcoupe Mar 18, 2015 06:43 AM

love where you put the flex section. your always thinking outside the box.

markmatley Mar 18, 2015 11:47 AM

Ditto on the flex section and the way the two waste pipes recirc criss-cross each other to the downpipe! Me loves!


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