don't put your problems on me, i'm looking at any car under 30k. monaro, elise. outhandle? outbrake? you say brembos, i say 3300 lb boat. no one has proven that the us evo is better than the wrx in any area...yet. I had a WRX and I never had any transmission problems and I beat the crap out of it too, my guess is the decrepid old hasbeens that subaru attracts can't shift. Also if you open your eyes to makes other than Mitsubishi you'll notice that the ej20 is also easily tuneable. 227 hp with 3 cat converters is power locked up.

 

I HOPE you weren't talking to me. I have never even owned a Mitsubishi. My eyes are open to all car motors. Building/racing cars is part of what I do. I respect domestic and foreign. You probably won't find anyone more open minded when it comes to cars. I have modified everything from Hondas to Mustangs. And currently own two Mustangs. I'm a car enthusiast not a Mitsubishi enthusiast

 

Ok your saying we dont' know subarus?

Your forgeting the wrx has an open deck, small turbos, cheaper internals. Not to mention the small R160 axles and diffs compared to the R180 on the STi. Also the glass transmissions, low capacity injectors and an intercooler 1/2 the size of the SRT-4 not mentioning the evos

Below is an interesting article on the Evo Vs. Subaru posted by someone else.

1) The EVO uses a twin scroll turbo, which enables energy from the pressure, and flow (kinetic) of the exhaust to spin the turbine. The boxer arrangement of the Subi precludes the possibility of such an efficient turbo coupling to the engine since exhaust flow from the left cylinder bank is routed around the engine to the turbo positioned on the other side. At equivalent levels of boost, the 4G63 will always provide a higher output than the boxer of the Subi. Hence the shift to the 2.5l block comes as no surprise.

2) The longer exhaust plumbing in the Subie also causes cooling of the gases, which in-turn slow the light-up of the catalytic converter. Subaru circumvents the problem by putting a catalytic converter upstream of the turbo, which now experiences even higher operating temperatures. Lower operating temperatures and faster cooling after the motor is shut-off is an advantage of the EVO arrangement translating into longer turbo life, and longevity might be a concern for people spending ~$30k.

3) The problem of a hotter turbo is further compounded in the Subi with the awkward placement of the intercooler. Not only is the intercooler expected to provide a higher temperature gradient, but it' heat transfer efficiency is severely hampered by heat soak from the engine at low and even moderate speeds. Drive any WRX for even a few miles at low speed and try touching the intercooler. HOT...ineffective!

4) The main reason proffered by Subaru for maintaining the boxer configuration is low center of gravity. Well, a 2.0l weighs approximately 250 lbs which is a small fraction of the net vehicle weight given that the placement of all other drivetrain hardware is identical. Besides, with the boxer arrangement, all peripheral components (alternator, A/C compressor) are mounted above the block, thereby, detracting from the noble intentions of having a low C of G.


Oh sorry about that but need to inform a newbie on why Mitsubishi are better.

Back to the topic. The evo weights 3263 not 3300.

 

i love it when GTR puts someone in there place

thanks for saying what i wanted to say but couldn't phrase it

 

gtr,
Ummm, check some of your info there:

1. The JDM STi has a twin-scroll turbo. If anything, this will make turbo upgrades on the JDM STi and our EVO more expensive.
2. That is pure speculation on longevity of a WRX turbo versus a US EVO one. They are both water and oil cooled. The WRX only runs 13.6psi peak, the EVO 19psi peak! They are both Mitsu turbos...
3. WRX intercoolers work fine. After driving (hard even) they are not warm to the touch at all, in fact they are usually quite cool. A plus with the top mount location is hardly any piping is required, a fraction of a front mount's.
4. More speculation. Do some calculations if you want to make a claim like that.

The EVOs that have sunroofs are just a shade under 3300 lbs, and somewhere else here I read most EVOs will have sunroofs.

And yes, despite all of its "shortcomings" the EJ20 can be tuned to perform quite well, 350+ hp on stock internals without much trouble. If you really want to compare the EVO to a WRX, stick with the STi.

TRS

 

How did this thread turn into another WRX (STi) vs. Evo debate again!

Mommy, please make it stop...

 

Actually i didn't write that but it is very biased but helps my arguement on why evo's are better than the wrx .

I just want to comment that the TMIC has short piping YES the evo's FMIC has longer.

But, i'd rather take those plumming with the larger IC anyday compared to the long plumbing on the exhause mainfold. That is a pressure drop and a half on the turbos which means the turbos work harder with slower spoolup not mentioning the upipe requirement on the wrx.

Have you ever touch a wrx intercooler while dynoing ? Good example of heatsoak on a hot summer day.

Everyone should know I have argued for the New STi but my reasoning for thinking about going STi is the DCCD and LSD. Maybe 2.5L??? I feel because of the factors listed above size for size the i feel the 4G63 with FMIC is more powerful than the EJ20 boxter with TMIC. Just by looking at the Ecu upgrade combos with similar kits the evo always comes out with more HP.

EDIT: Opps, Didn't see that mod. I'll stop now

 

Back that up with parts prices and a dyno slip. I'd like to see a $500 upgrade path for a WRX that adds over 50 HP, comprable suspension, and braking ability.

Upgrading the brakes alone will put you over the $500 mark, let alone the suspension. Don't talk out your ***. I am a Supra lover 1st, but even I can apreciate the difference between a WRX and the EVO. You're right that some people are blindly faithful to the EVO, but your comment is just ridiculous.

From Overboost.com, jscspeed.com and home.att.net/~teaguesauto/suspensi.htm

Brakes:
Wilwood Big Brake Kit 2002+ Subaru Impreza WRX 12.19" Rotor 4-piston Caliper w/ Stainless Steel Flexlines $882

Intake:
Injen Race Division Intake - 2002-UP Subaru WRX (No Wagon) (Blue) $232.00 (Estimated HP gain: 15)

Exhaust:
Injen Super SES Exhaust System 2002-UP Subaru Impreza WRX (No Wagon) $465 (Estimated HP gain: 20)

MBC:
Grainger Vavle (ball and spring) $20 (estimated HP gain: 30 at 20PSI) NOTE: this is only after adding the Intake and exhaust to allow the car to breath).

Suspension:
Eibach springs: $227/pair
Koni Sport Shock for WRX $308/pair
Cusco Rear OvalShaft "OS" Strut Bar for WRX $157


You do the math, that's way over $500...

 

WRX STI vs EVO is actually a great comparison. Unlike a standard WRX, which doesn't cut it next to either of the other 2 cars. STI and EVO are both amzing machines. I give props to em both

 

No problem.

$20 MBC
$250 Vishnu EMI
$150 Gruppe S Uppipe
$40 K&N Filter
Take off the muffler
Remove all non essential equipment

Lets do a very conservative estimate and say the car weighs 2500 lbs stripped. Those performance mods should be good for about Vishnu Stage 0 peformance levels(280hp). Effectively increased the performance of the stock brakes and suspension by lowering the cars weight. Also with the lower weight, should be good for high 12's in the 1/4 mile. Then we can sell all the stuff we stripped off and spend it on a good set of tires.

 

WRONG. Lowering the car's weight will help with the braking performance, however the suspension (while better) will still not be up to par. Also comparing a car you strip bare to a stock EVO is silly. We can strip the EVO for free too. That's the only way your stated scenario works.

My response was to his statement that $500 is a realistic amount to expect to spend and outperform an EVO...

Tell you what, you can have $500 dollars and a standard WRX, I'll take an EVO and no budget. You do everything you can think of to your WRX with $500 and free mods. I'll just do the free mods.

If you think you'll come out ahead you're smoking crack.

 

Oh yeah using your model of stripping the car you can still do it cheaper than this.

Just remove the downpipe(er or uppipe)
Forget the filter and remove the whole intake. Replace it with aluminum foil piping like that used for dryers ($5). Make the MBC yourself ($5-10). If you take removing non essential equipment as far as it can go, you'll weigh in at far less than 2500. Just remove all the body panels and glass too.

 

You don't think I'd actually do something like that do you?

You said, I'd like to see a $500 upgrade path for a WRX that adds over 50 HP, comprable suspension, and braking ability. You didn't give any rules to go buy but the 500. So I answered your question, you're welcome.

A car like that would easily out handle the EVO though. Yes, the effect of the spring rates would increase. Why do you think cars like Lotus Elises, Super 7's, miata's, etc are so good at handling. Weight.

 

Ben's WRX in prep to race an Evo.

 

Exactly what I'm talking about evo_dan.

Ben I think you still missed my point. There is no $500 dollars in upgrade parts you can buy that will make a WRX have the same quality of performance parts and performance numbers.

Also There is more to handling than just weight. Yeah it's a big factor, but so are anti-sway bars, strut braces, and stiff springs and struts...