whtrice

iTrader: (6)

I always chuckle at the "lifetime guarantee" statements.
Death and taxes are the only guarantees in life.

Have you seen any Manley rods fail at that level?

burnzy

iTrader: (1)

Never expected any sort of life guarantee or reimbursement for damage as its a race part and we all know **** happens. I just expected it to hold up to what they rate it doe for at least a year you know what I mean? When a company advertises a rod for 1000whp+ and then guarantee it unbreakable on top of that you would expect it to last more than a few weeks with 800hp. All they had to do was give me one rod as a gesture that they half gave a **** and felt bad that they took out my entire motor and left me without car and I would have been happy. Never seen a Manley turbo tuff let go at that I just preferred the maps for the wider bearin and not having to clearance the bottom of the bore, also I was buying all my parts from map at the time

asuarez

One would assume they will replace them to keep a customer with an extensive list of purchases. Also considering they advertise them as high horsepower rods "1200+whp per motor".

Modern Automotive Performance does not offer any type of warranty coverage for defective products except those that are manufactured by us.

burnzy

iTrader: (1)

You would think so however their reply and lack of willingness to reply makes me suspicious on this matter. I think they had much more issues with the v1 and handing out a rod to me would make it look like they're admitting fault. The reply almost seems as if they're in the midst of getting sued or something. I mean there is one guy who had all his rods literally wrap around his crank . Heaps of others who have bent them and then been sent new rods which are of different colour, maybe bad heat treating. But how's this for advertising
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ve...breakable.html

maperformance

iTrader: (358)

Sorry for my latent reading of this issue and I apologize and I have never caught wind of this case. This is near and dear to me as an avid Mitsu guy personally. May I ask you PM me with your email, order number etc and I will look into addressing this personally? I wish I were brought into the loop on these issues and I feel it unreasonable that we would have such a cold response to your given situation though, I know we do have stiff procedures due to fraud. That said, this is different and especially as it's something we made. Please do let this experience or initial response alter your opinion of us, and I completely can relate to your frustration. I won't give up on you!

-Adam

maperformance

iTrader: (358)

Also, I spoke with my customer service manager and have not heard of any cases of broken rods. When you submit your information to me, please supply any pictures you have of the rods in their current condition. I will use these for engineering purposes as well. That said, this is also the first and only case to ever come of these rods.

-Adam

Tekniq

iTrader: (11)

Not trying to cause trouble....but this reads like it has happened to someone else.

maperformance

iTrader: (358)

Actually, the original rods (mind you, no longer in production) were extremely strong. I don't recall a single instance of an strange failure... Howards, the company that manufactures our rods... both original and REV2 actually prompted the changeover and that, to my understanding, was a result of some manufacturing process changes on their end which actually required revision. Our confidence in those rods was so high that we shopped around the idea of manufacturing the design elsewhere. After a lot of testing, internally and at the track, we finally signed off on the REV2 rods and I am pretty happy we did as they are a super solid offering... BUT it would be a stretch of the imagination to come to the conclusion that the revision was a result of widespread failures.

These types of disagreements can pop up from time to time. To his credit the OP purchased a set of our original rods approximately 6-7 years ago. After this failure:

"Hey buddy, unfortunately after using probably 15 sets of map ultimates or so I finally had one let go in my personal car, it was a 2.4 150mm rod with a map v band 6466 kit on it, went friggin awesome til last night when it just let go at redline, seems to have failed in tension and not compression as the rod seems to have pulled itself apart. This was one of the original Rods, the darker ones that came in the carry box. Is there anything we can do about this? This rod was bought when you guys still had the unbreakable guarantee. It was making about 560kw on 34psi which is roughly 850hp in dynojet terms and held that power for about 2000km, if you're interested I actually happened to be logging the car when it let go. Afrs were a comfortable 11.3 on e85"

To which I responded:

"I did some digging, sir... and I regret to have to inform you... that the design has been changed for so long that there are simply none of the older style available. In fact the entire manufacturing process is completely different now. I apologize for the issues and the failure. I can instruct one of my guys to assist with pricing on a set but a single, I am very fearful that there just wouldn't be any way to facilitate a replacement of a single, sir."

To which I received response:

"But when I bought it due to being a Guinea pig of sorts the offer was that if you broke one you'd get a refund ?"

I still believe it is bad business to argue on different points of view but speaking from an honest and admittedly singular point of perspective, at that point, I took the above to mean there was no interest in pricing... discounted or otherwise. After 6-7 years of use, I FELT it fair to say that the rods had been in service and were used in an engine successfully making good power and for an appropriate length of time which I admit could be a subjective analysis... so long, in fact, all prior sales reps, software integration and relevant forms of advertisement are no longer in use nor have the rods that were originally purchased been in production by about 3-4 years.

In any case, my offer to assist still stands, but I am afraid I really don't think that an outright refund of the purchase price of those rods is warranted.

MinusPrevious

iTrader: (3)

Great to see you step-in Adam & address the issue if front of all here

Ive ordered a few parts (FA510's & a few other things) from you personally & always held MAP among the better EVO parts suppliers

Joe

lancerrally45

iTrader: (22)

Seems to me, its on a case by case basis.
Still not enough to change my "10-12 years of buying car parts experience."

So is Adam saying that even though it was labeled as "unbreakable" they wouldnt cover it due to "their judgement call on usage?" Was there not a years of usage placed on this? Miles, etc? If not MAP would be open for a lawsuit if someone was pissed enough.

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

Over a single connecting rod? Not worth time and court fees. The way I see it, MAP could just give him his $200 back for one rod. Or give him $200 off of a new set (which it seems they're kind of willing to do this option)...


I can see MAP's position here. A 6-7 old year connecting rod finally had a failure, in a high performance application 6-7 years is a long time. In the trophy truck I help with, the motor gets new rods and pistons every 5k miles. And its an 850hp 440ci LSX, so it makes less power than this boosted four cylinder, and WAY less hp per cylinder.


MAP doesn't even sell, nor can they make, that version of the rod any more. So they offered to help with pricing on a set of their new rods. I'm sure, back in the day, if the rod had broken when they still had their "unbreakable" warranty, they would have sent out ONE new rod, at a cost of probably $100-$150. So I feel like offering the OP a discounted purchase of a new set of rods is pretty fair.

lancerrally45

iTrader: (22)

I wasnt saying it was practical, haha.

burnzy

iTrader: (1)

The rod was not 6-7 years old at all. It is 3 years old I don't know where you're pulling 7 years from. Regardless even IF it was 7 years old which it isn't, I don't think 5000km is acceptable nor is it acceptable that the rod broke before it's rated limit and before the bearings or headgasket went.
Even if map just gave me a $200 refund or one of their new rods or a new set of rods I would have been happy. There would have been no reason a v2 Rod couldn't be matched with v1 would just need balancing. It was their basically no fks given attitude that pissed me off. This is someone who has bought multiple sets of these rods thinking they're good for 1000hp+. You know what's funny the rods are still being sold as unbreakable as if a few days ago. I'm not sure how exactly Adam has addressed this issue?

Dude you're saying your $5000 motor breaks in 5000km and it would be "fair" for them to give you ONE rod and you'd be happy,pull the other one mate if you were put in that position I guarantee you will not say it's fair, it doesn't even need to be under that guarantee in which there was no time limit placed on, in Australia we have something referred to as acceptable use , even the mighty Apple had to bow down to those laws and fix phones past their warranty date, too bad things aren't as "fair" there

burnzy

iTrader: (1)

so long, in fact, all prior sales reps, software integration and relevant forms of advertisement are no longer in use nor have the rods that were originally purchased been in production by about 3-4 years.

In any case, my offer to assist still stands, but I am afraid I really don't think that an outright refund of the purchase price of those rods is warranted.[/QUOTE]

What you mean so long in fact that 2 days ago the advertisement for the rod was still up along with the guarantee? Actually so long ago that an ad with the guarantee is still up and is first to come up on a Google search https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/mo...n-viii-ix.html

The rod still exists it's just version 2 that's not a completely different rod, I don't believe you that you haven't heard any other cases as a quick google turned up a few cases easily, even David Buschur said he'd seen bent ones and personally I know of 2 others who have broken them in Australia alone including the guy in the video , that's a lot of people for a rod claiming 1000hp+
This guy here also https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sa...-rod-rods.html

End of the day 2000km worth of 860hp is what you guys are defending is ok from a guaranteed unbreakable 1000hp+ rod, fair enough if it bent but this has put a hole in my block and I'm up for a completely new motor. Basically that rod has cost me about $5000 for 2000km

maperformance

iTrader: (358)

Almost regardless of the age of purchase as mentioned previously, there is no way for us to replace that specific rod to any reasonable balanced, capacity. In fact, due to being nearly forced into the new manufacturing design of the Rev2 rods, we would have to offer those as a set. It's like offering a different tire size on one corner of an AWD car. Not remotely smart or practical, and that's assuming we could even get the original size in the first place. No matter the tire failing before a specific speed limit in which is is rated for. Due to the change in cost over time, new designs, and the options on the table, this is the very best I can offer.

In terms of records, yes there have been no reported failures to us. Not one. Besides this of course. The other thing is that power is an EXTREMELY relative measure of stress. Yes output is a specific calculated figure, it cannot be regulated among so many variables between cars. What I mean, is that a rod that fails at 600whp might have failed due to temperature, knock, lack of wrist pin lubrication, rod bolt torque, or more. Also, since engine failures tend to be fairly catastrophic, it's nearly impossible to diagnose the exact reason they failed unless it is a clear cut sample. In nearly every rod failure case that we have seen, there are numerous data points that separate it from being something easily plotted and pointed towards a trend. Believe what you want of our rods, but if so many have failed or bent easily, why were thousands of pulls at over 1000+whp successful in many engines we've put these in?

I certainly do understand the frustration and I completely hate the circumstances of a failed engine for any customer or fellow enthusiast. However I am limited to only being able to give what I can, and that is an at cost deal, on a brand new set.

-Adam