Ohlins DFV Valving Limitations?
May 27, 2015, 06:18 PM
#1
Ohlins DFV Valving Limitations?
Long story short:
I called PSI today trying to find some information about the Ohlins DFV.....when I asked if they can revalve the DFV to be used for my springs (700lbs/900lbs), the guy was a bit in shock. He wasn't sure if the DFV could be valved to take these springs. He then put me on hold to go ask a tech. Came back and tell me it's ok.
Now, maybe I am a bit paranoid....why would he even say that in the beginning? Is there some truth to that that the DFV has some limitations?
Another thing that surprises me is that I asked him if there is any other options that fall in between the DFV and their Ohlins TTX based package and he said no.........so it's either you spend $2,500 on the DFV or $9,000 on the TTX??????? This is a joke right? I for one know you can get MCS (which is Motons) that falls between this price range, but perhaps this guy just wasn't interested in my business.
Anyways, just want to get some second opinions.
I called PSI today trying to find some information about the Ohlins DFV.....when I asked if they can revalve the DFV to be used for my springs (700lbs/900lbs), the guy was a bit in shock. He wasn't sure if the DFV could be valved to take these springs. He then put me on hold to go ask a tech. Came back and tell me it's ok.
Now, maybe I am a bit paranoid....why would he even say that in the beginning? Is there some truth to that that the DFV has some limitations?
Another thing that surprises me is that I asked him if there is any other options that fall in between the DFV and their Ohlins TTX based package and he said no.........so it's either you spend $2,500 on the DFV or $9,000 on the TTX??????? This is a joke right? I for one know you can get MCS (which is Motons) that falls between this price range, but perhaps this guy just wasn't interested in my business.
Anyways, just want to get some second opinions.
May 27, 2015, 11:52 PM
#3
DFV, FLAG, PCV, and new Road and Track, are essentially identical inside-except for Flag having double adjustor...but not any different piston/body or otherwise performance advantage except for separately adjustable rebound.
PSI is phenomenal, and perhaps this was a new-guy, but their technical ability and service quality is world-class.
Enjoy and don't worry.
I do think that those spring rates are excessive, for race car, let alone track-day car...but to each his own.
Race cars (Evo's) typically are in the 500-600lb...at least here in California tracks are bumpy, not sure where you track/race but winning TA cars run soft springs!
PSI is phenomenal, and perhaps this was a new-guy, but their technical ability and service quality is world-class.
Enjoy and don't worry.
I do think that those spring rates are excessive, for race car, let alone track-day car...but to each his own.
Race cars (Evo's) typically are in the 500-600lb...at least here in California tracks are bumpy, not sure where you track/race but winning TA cars run soft springs!
May 28, 2015, 05:49 AM
#5
DFV, FLAG, PCV, and new Road and Track, are essentially identical inside-except for Flag having double adjustor...but not any different piston/body or otherwise performance advantage except for separately adjustable rebound.
PSI is phenomenal, and perhaps this was a new-guy, but their technical ability and service quality is world-class.
Enjoy and don't worry.
I do think that those spring rates are excessive, for race car, let alone track-day car...but to each his own.
Race cars (Evo's) typically are in the 500-600lb...at least here in California tracks are bumpy, not sure where you track/race but winning TA cars run soft springs!
PSI is phenomenal, and perhaps this was a new-guy, but their technical ability and service quality is world-class.
Enjoy and don't worry.
I do think that those spring rates are excessive, for race car, let alone track-day car...but to each his own.
Race cars (Evo's) typically are in the 500-600lb...at least here in California tracks are bumpy, not sure where you track/race but winning TA cars run soft springs!
May 28, 2015, 06:48 AM
#6
As already mentioned Ohins used to sell their Flag model which falls in between the DFV's and their TTX however the Flags have been discontinued. There is a set for sale right now in the classifieds for ~$3500 IIRC
And to answer your other question, I see no reason why they cant be revalved to those rates. This past winter I had my DFV's revalved by Ohlins USA using 650#/ 800# springs, granted its not as stiff as you're going for but not that far off either...
And to answer your other question, I see no reason why they cant be revalved to those rates. This past winter I had my DFV's revalved by Ohlins USA using 650#/ 800# springs, granted its not as stiff as you're going for but not that far off either...
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May 28, 2015, 06:59 AM
#8
I am also leaning towards the Motion Control single adjustable just to try something different. Also, they are upgradable to doubles in the future, which is a good option that the DFV does not have.
Thanks. I guess I will try Ohlins USA.
May 28, 2015, 07:55 AM
#9
What did you use before the DFV? My expectation is that the DFV will be very similar in feel to my PCV, just different technology and maybe a bit more complient on the streets.
I am also leaning towards the Motion Control single adjustable just to try something different. Also, they are upgradable to doubles in the future, which is a good option that the DFV does not have.
Thanks. I guess I will try Ohlins USA.
I am also leaning towards the Motion Control single adjustable just to try something different. Also, they are upgradable to doubles in the future, which is a good option that the DFV does not have.
Thanks. I guess I will try Ohlins USA.
I'd recommend calling Ohlins USA and having an intelligent conversation with them to gather their feedback. Having never used the PCV's I can't really compare the two but I'd venture a guess that they are very similar. One obvious difference from the PCV's and the DFV's though is that the DFV's have independent ride height and preload adjustment whereas the PCV's do not. This is important if you were to have your car corner balanced as adding spring preload to change the ride height and corner weights seems wrong IMO.
The MCS sounds like a good option as well and is cool that they can be upgraded down the road. I'm pretty sure there are a few stateside shops that can work on them but just confirm that prior to ordering them or you will hate life when you go to have them rebuilt.
May 28, 2015, 09:00 AM
#10
I'd recommend calling Ohlins USA and having an intelligent conversation with them to gather their feedback. Having never used the PCV's I can't really compare the two but I'd venture a guess that they are very similar. One obvious difference from the PCV's and the DFV's though is that the DFV's have independent ride height and preload adjustment whereas the PCV's do not. This is important if you were to have your car corner balanced as adding spring preload to change the ride height and corner weights seems wrong IMO.
On the other hand, if spring preload is such a big concern, then how come other brands like Motons, JRZ, Penske never come up with the design as the Ohlin DFV to adjust ride height independently?
And to add to this, a lot of the 2nd Tier coilovers like K-sport, D2, Tein etc. have the independent ride height adjustment design for a LONG time, but yet we haven't seen this on more expensive coilovers until the Ohlins DFV.
All of these make me confused.
May 28, 2015, 02:54 PM
#11
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
Interesting you said that about preload, and I am not sure what to believe. I assume ride height should really be determined on the length of the springs and shocks you use, and should not rely on the spring collar to change the ride heights drastically. To me, the spring collar is useful for corner balance where you need minor adjustments and hopefully, you have picked the right springs as not have to adjust the collar too significantly to get your corner balance right, and therefore, minimal preload.
On the other hand, if spring preload is such a big concern, then how come other brands like Motons, JRZ, Penske never come up with the design as the Ohlin DFV to adjust ride height independently?
And to add to this, a lot of the 2nd Tier coilovers like K-sport, D2, Tein etc. have the independent ride height adjustment design for a LONG time, but yet we haven't seen this on more expensive coilovers until the Ohlins DFV.
All of these make me confused.
On the other hand, if spring preload is such a big concern, then how come other brands like Motons, JRZ, Penske never come up with the design as the Ohlin DFV to adjust ride height independently?
And to add to this, a lot of the 2nd Tier coilovers like K-sport, D2, Tein etc. have the independent ride height adjustment design for a LONG time, but yet we haven't seen this on more expensive coilovers until the Ohlins DFV.
All of these make me confused.
KW is another that only offers spring preload adjustment, with now ride height/shock body length adjustment.
May 29, 2015, 06:49 AM
#12
There are a couple ways to look at it. I'm not sure its necessary but its certainly a nice to have IMO. Right height should really be set by the length of the springs as you said but for fine adjustments thats where adjusting those collars comes into play. If you never plan to have your car corner balanced that this whole discussion is a moot point.
The only reason I brought it up is that I was pretty sure the PCV's did not have separate height adjustment.
At the end of the day if you have proper spring rates a quality damper (Ohlins, AST, Moton, JRZ, MCS Penske etc.) and a proper alignment the car should ride and handle great.
And FWIW I don't think separate ride height adjustment is a gimick per se however just keep in mind that with the cheaper pick your color coilovers their main selling points is number of adjustments so things like that help them sell.
The only reason I brought it up is that I was pretty sure the PCV's did not have separate height adjustment.
At the end of the day if you have proper spring rates a quality damper (Ohlins, AST, Moton, JRZ, MCS Penske etc.) and a proper alignment the car should ride and handle great.
And FWIW I don't think separate ride height adjustment is a gimick per se however just keep in mind that with the cheaper pick your color coilovers their main selling points is number of adjustments so things like that help them sell.
May 29, 2015, 07:29 AM
#13
Great. Point taken.
I guess you are right, from a marketing perspective for those "pick the color" coilover, the more feature the better to help them sell. And sadly, it seems to work for them.
In fact, my PCV actually has helper springs all around which appear to be there to keep the ride height at a reasonable position and not to introduce too much preload on the main springs. Just a FYI for everyone, the PCV is the Vishnu setup from way back and the previous owner of the car has been using it with great success.
I am only looking because I want to replace them with something that I can have them serviced with less hassle in the future.
I guess you are right, from a marketing perspective for those "pick the color" coilover, the more feature the better to help them sell. And sadly, it seems to work for them.
In fact, my PCV actually has helper springs all around which appear to be there to keep the ride height at a reasonable position and not to introduce too much preload on the main springs. Just a FYI for everyone, the PCV is the Vishnu setup from way back and the previous owner of the car has been using it with great success.
I am only looking because I want to replace them with something that I can have them serviced with less hassle in the future.
May 29, 2015, 11:15 AM
#14
IMO, the independent height adjustment is KIND OF a gimmick.
If you have a shock designed around a particular car with a limited expected ride height range, you can maximize travel capability in the system. You can use the longest possible body that still gets you the required bump travel. From there, you can maximize droop travel and use a main/helper setup to get where your ride height needs to be. For inverted monotube struts, this also increases bending stiffness of the damper, which will lead to reduced stiction and wear.
In comparison, the independent stuff uses a short enough shock body to ensure bump travel is maintained when the car is overly lowered. Total travel is reduced.
Of course, the caveat here, not everybody has the same ride height range requirement...
If you have a shock designed around a particular car with a limited expected ride height range, you can maximize travel capability in the system. You can use the longest possible body that still gets you the required bump travel. From there, you can maximize droop travel and use a main/helper setup to get where your ride height needs to be. For inverted monotube struts, this also increases bending stiffness of the damper, which will lead to reduced stiction and wear.
In comparison, the independent stuff uses a short enough shock body to ensure bump travel is maintained when the car is overly lowered. Total travel is reduced.
Of course, the caveat here, not everybody has the same ride height range requirement...
May 29, 2015, 02:31 PM
#15
But of course, if the shock body is also shortened, then it is counter-productive. I would assume that Ohlins have maintained the same shock body length that they would have used otherwise.