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Wavetrac vs 1-way vs 1.5 way front diff experiences?

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Old Jul 10, 2017, 02:33 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by kyoo View Post
i believe in the states we use GL4 in the gearbox (and front diff) and GL5 for t-case, rear diff. I'm assuming then the clutch plate would want GL5, but the additive packages are different, may not be optimal, plus the different wear metals flowing through with the clutch diff

It's not that the clutch front diff wants GL5, it's that it wants an LS additive.

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Originally Posted by kaj View Post
The downside of having a transaxle (sharing oil)...

The front diff is in the tcase. So the down side is that our front diff gets fluid from the trans. Unlike the Evo X, where the front diff shares the tcase fluid.

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Originally Posted by kikiturbo View Post
the ACD clutch plate wants an LS oil, just like the plate diff

the guys on the uk forums who run plate diffs and normal syncho gearbox use IIRC millers GL4/5 LS trans oil with success. I plan on using motul gear 300 LS, that I normally use in the transfer box with ACD.

I agree that it is not optimal, from the wear standpoint, as we need to remember that the plate diffs are usually used in combination with dogboxes.
Having said that, Ralliart just specifies Diaqueen LSD oil for the gearbox with ralliart plate front diff...
ACD is of no concern to for the front diff on a CT9a. The ACD clutches sit in the tcase fluid. Tcase and front diff are divorced. Front diff receives trans fluid.


Ralliart says to use Diaqueen LSD90 in the gear box with clutch front diff...
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Old Jul 10, 2017, 02:43 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone View Post

ACD is of no concern to for the front diff on a CT9a. The ACD clutches sit in the tcase fluid. Tcase and front diff are divorced. Front diff receives trans fluid.
I know, but I mention ACD because it is basically a steel plate diff just like the plate front diff... i.e. needs the same type of oil
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Old Jul 10, 2017, 02:59 PM   #33
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Ah, gotcha.
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Old Jul 10, 2017, 03:12 PM   #34
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what I find equally frustrating and interesting is that ralliart manual for front plate diff on e9 makes no mention of gearbox oil... while the same paper, for what is basically the same front diff on evo X states specifically that gearbox needs LSD oil too... It might be because of the GrN X being homologated with dogbox from the start.. I dont know..

anyway... if the car is to be a DD I'd skip on the plate front diff..
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Old Jul 10, 2017, 03:16 PM   #35
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I use redline MT-90 in the gear box with a plated diff, works fine.
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Old Jul 10, 2017, 03:33 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by kikiturbo View Post
what I find equally frustrating and interesting is that ralliart manual for front plate diff on e9 makes no mention of gearbox oil... while the same paper, for what is basically the same front diff on evo X states specifically that gearbox needs LSD oil too... It might be because of the GrN X being homologated with dogbox from the start.. I dont know..

anyway... if the car is to be a DD I'd skip on the plate front diff..
What interesting about that is the X front diff does not get oil from the transmission. It shares the tcase fluid.
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Old Jul 10, 2017, 04:47 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone View Post
The front diff is in the tcase. So the down side is that our front diff gets fluid from the trans. Unlike the Evo X, where the front diff shares the tcase fluid.
Yup. That's what I'm saying. So you can't use the fluid that is best for either.. you have to find a happy medium, of sorts.
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Old Jul 11, 2017, 02:28 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone View Post
What interesting about that is the X front diff does not get oil from the transmission. It shares the tcase fluid.

I have seen this on a SST evo X and was surprised, but was to be expected due to SST runing really different oil.. Would be interesting to open the manual X transfer case to see how it is done..
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Old Jul 11, 2017, 07:59 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by kikiturbo View Post
I have seen this on a SST evo X and was surprised, but was to be expected due to SST runing really different oil.. Would be interesting to open the manual X transfer case to see how it is done..

I'm fairly certain the GSR is separated as well. Theres know other reason why the X tcase holds 50% more fluid than the CT9a tcase, seeing as how they're about the same size.
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Old Jul 11, 2017, 09:00 AM   #40
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I agree... also, the ralliart front diff for the evo X has holes in both housings, to let the oil in..

the way e9 front diff gets oil is interesting.. the oil from the gearbox goes in trough the passenger side intermediate driveshaft.. Need to figure how to isolate the oil return from the front diff into the gearbox and we could have separate oils for front diff + acd + transfer and gearbox..
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Old Jul 16, 2017, 09:20 PM   #41
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Mychailo and I have chatted much on this subject but thought id add my thoughts on the subject going from OEM to wavetrac to Mfactory.

OEM - Dont launch this thing. Look through TRE's FB or Instagram page and you'll see magnaflux pictures of why these suck and where they break.

Wavetrack - Just a stronger OEM equivalent within my ability to feel. I felt like I always chased something that cause my car to push when I lifted mid corner trying to get the front to tuck in. Im not talking big lift, just less throttle to get some load transfer but would push instead of bite. Ryan Otis (Multi time 2nd place winner (STU, SS, AS, and FS national champ),Dan Bullis (2nd place BS in a borrowed car with turrible setup), and Tom Katzian (If you have to ask...) commented on same issue driving my car.

Also of note, the helical nature works the same forward as backwards. Engine braking torque will cause a bias and 2nd gear with a stroker makes good engine braking.

Mfactory - Had issues on first unit with fitting. Had to send in for a couple thousandths to get shave off just to fit. Annoying, but they made it right. Set to 1 way and 60% with the plates stacking.

First event was eye opening. As Greg McCance (ESP national Champ and the reason WRX's got kicked from ASP) told me would happen considering his personal experience as well, all that lift understeer disappeared. Lift and the front tucks in. That part was huge. But what I didn't expect is pulling out of corners aggressively resulted in way less throttle oversteer. I assume the front just works that much better pulling out and doesn't overwork the rear.

Just my thoughts, but on a DD I would probably pick wavetrac. On an AX car and maybe track dedicated car I would go Clutch 1way (cusco preferably or if you're cheap like me then mfactory). I still have both, wavetrac will never make its way back in my car if that means anything.
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Old Jul 17, 2017, 10:12 AM   #42
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Dallas

Interesting to hear/read the positive changes going from Wavetrac Helical to MFactory 1-Way plated,
Understeer under release/engine braking is not something I experienced, I.e. I did not take note as the only place/places that could be evident are 2 or 3 switchbacks on mountain roads I drive requiring full lock and even then it's right-you have to use all the tarmac from edge to edge to make the turn.

On track turns are big, speeds moderate to high, weight transfer on release immediately causes chassis to react- into gentle oversteer attitude.

I like the improved pull/traction out of the corner, but am sure even less understeer on corner entry, both of these front end improvements could say then allow softer rear LSD preload, which would further decrease propensity for understeer.

I like where this can go.

On subject of Mfactory and Cusco front LSD,
Can you Dallas and Griceiv give us each your perception/reason why you think Cusco is best?
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Old Jul 18, 2017, 01:17 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinaturbo View Post
On subject of Mfactory and Cusco front LSD,
Can you Dallas and Griceiv give us each your perception/reason why you think Cusco is best?
coil springs for preload instead of cone springs. longer time between rebuilds, more consistent performance.
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Old Jul 18, 2017, 04:43 PM   #44
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Thank you very much
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Old Yesterday, 02:15 AM   #45
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It's hard to imagine that the improvements mentioned by Dallas and giecev on the autox course wouldn't provide benefit for other types of performance driving. Main issues with plate at the front would seem to be a need to rebuild occasionally and sharing oil with gearbox.
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