Strange problem with Brake pedal after DS2500, SS lines, and Motul.
 

I just installed some Ferrodo DS2500 pads Front and rear on the stock rotors. I also installed Technafit SS brakes lines all the way around. Flushed the stock fluid and put in Motul RF600. I bleed the brakes with a tube and container kit from Advance autoparts, $7 kit. I drove the car to bed the brakes and the brakes work well. I let them cool overnight and drove the next day.

The pedal upon first depression of the brake pedal is sort of soft. If you release and hit the brake pedal again it is firm, and subsequent pedal mashes it is firm. If you drive a little bit before hitting again, the first brake pedal press it is somewhat soft, and then firms up again. This is a repeated process, the first pedal depression is always soft.

The brakes work really well though.

I bought speed bleeders for the calipers and bleed them again, with the car running this time. They bleed out really well, with no bubbles. I went around the car twice to make sure there was no air.

Go for a drive and the symptoms are exactly the same. Is this how it is with these pads or is something else wrong?

I know there is no air coming out of the speed bleeders when bleeding. The bleeders were torqued down to 14.5 ft lbs after bleeding also. I also know there are 8 bleed screws, so I didnt mess that up either. I also bleed from the outside then inside bleed screws. I also followed the suggested order of bleeding from the manual.

So if its not air, then what could it be?

Anybody had the same problems? Or is it normal?

Thanks
Brian

Not familiar with the pads. Have you researched them to see if they take a bit to heat up? Like if they are track pads, I could see this happen when they are cold. Just and idea...

Its not the bite of the pad that is lacking, it is the pedal that is slightly soft. It happens if you are moving, or sitting still also. It is almost like the first pedal depression is used to pump up the system.

Brian

I didn't install mine, but it sounds similar to how they perform. I think its normal.

same thing happened to me....be very aggressive on the brakes in a empty lot....im talking about mashing the pedal down a few times...go back and re bleed them....also did you bleed in correct ordered...Being aggressive on the brakes activates the ABS and it kicks out any air trapped in the ABS system....also when bleeding your brakes do not unscrew the bleeder screw that much.....only unscrew it a little bit becasue if you unscreew it too much, air can get back into the system. keep us updates.

That doesn't sound normal, I use Ferodo DS2500 and the pad "bite" is very consistent. Ofcourse I'm still on the stock brakelines. Check for leaks, you might have a leak somewhere or your speedbleeders are faulty? :dunno: ....

If it pumps up hard then you have air in there somewhere.

DS 2500's feel just like stock pads, I don't think that's it. Sounds more like air if it feels harder after the second pump.

I would guess air as well .... did you completly drain the old brake fluid and then dump in the new? If you did the brake system has all kids of tricky spots that air likes to hide.

I completely drained. Then bled them alot. Then drove it. Found it to be different than stock, then got the speed bleeders and bled them again alot. I have gone through 2.5 quarts of Motul flushing (1 quart) and bleeding ALOT (1.5 quarts more). If there is air in the system, I dont know where it would be hiding (LOL).

Brian

did you emply the brake system is actually a better question ... and then fill it with the Motul and then bleed? if you did that I was told air gets stuck in the system in little nooks. I'm about 90% sure you have some type of air in there as I dont have that problem with my DS2500 and lines.

Also check all your lines and make sure there are no leaks what so ever one them as a little leak could do it.

On another note do your front pads make a clicking sound like they shift a little? As after I put in my when I reverse and stop I get a click and then if I go forward and stop I get a click .. its almost like the calipers are loose but they are not.

I didnt empty the reservoir. It never got below the min mark on the reservoir before I topped it back off. I took my time and did it very carefully. No mistakes were made in the processes that were done.

The pads are more quiet than the stock pads. Super smooth and good stopping, and no noise at all so far. All the lines are tight and the other connections were torqued to factory specs. The one end of the line was tightened with a wrench so no torquing it though. They are tight enough that I would be affraid to tighten them anymore.

Brian

you have to activate the ABS by braking very very hard then re bleed it.....thats how i bled mine when i still had air in my system....do it a few times and you will see how much hidden air was left in there....after a SS clutch install the pedal feel should be the same or stiffer then stock consistently....if you have to pump that means there is air in there.

I used to be a brake tech about 5 years ago. I used to run into this problem now and then. You do have some residual air in the lines....no biggeee. Not saying your stupid, but make sure you bleed the farthes away from the master cyl (RR,LR,RF,LF...). The ABS module might have trapped some air as well. Do some ABS stops, then bleed in sequence. If that does not solve it, then bleed the ABS modulator as well. THEN if that does not work....take it to a brake shop (i.e. Midas) and have them "power bleed" it, THAT always works...

My brakes feel the same. However, my pedal will go at least 80% down and the pedal will feel soft and mushy upon the first depression. When I pump the brakes, it'll firm up but still travel just as far. I bled the lines a week later and took out all the air from the system and then drove the car for 2 weeks and bled them again. The second time i bled them there was absolutely no air that came out. I followed the tutorial on joe250.com (crisscross method) the pedal feel didnt change. When the car is off the pedal is hard as a rock and only travels about 50% of the way down.

A friend of mine told me to take the silencer shims off because they werent flat and they're acting like a spring inbetween the pistons and pads. I had to pry them off the stock pads and that made them uneven, I did try to bend them back into shape the best i could. I can also hear some type of squishing sound comming form the front right caliper when you first depress the brake pedal (it goes pretty far down and feels very soft when the car is on). I also noticed that one of the outside pistons didn't move on that one caliper, could that be it?

I'm using DBA 4000 rotors all around (slotted), Ferrodo DS2500 pads F&R, Endless SS lines and Motul RBF600. This all happened after i changed out the rotors and pads.