light suspension modifications for EDM EvoIX - thoughts?
 

Hi all! :)

I'm currently thinking and searching on the topic of small suspension modifications to be done on my 2006 EDM EvoIX next spring (just before the season opens up). The car is my DD and our roads here (i live in Ukraine, Eastern Europe) are kinda bumpy things most of the time, I visit tracks eventually (i.e. 2-3 times per month). :crap: As i've said the modifications to be done are mild, hence no coilovers or any similar significant (and expensive stuff).

As of now I see the following items:

1) Whiteline Steering Precision Kit
2) Whiteline Bump Steer Correction Kit
3) Whiteline Front swaybar 26mm
4) Whiteline Rear swaybar 22mm adjustable
5) Perrin PSRS
6) Energy Suspension Master Kit (black one, ofc except bushings in front that are in the same place as PSRS)
7) AMS Front motor mount
8) Energy Suspension M/T shifter bushings
9) Beatrush Propeller Shaft Mount Bushings
10) Beatrush Rear Differential Mount Spacers

in case i'll have enough funds this will be complemented with new rims (thinking of Enkei RPF1 8.5*17 or 5zigen FN01R 8.5*17 or BuddyClub P1 Racing QF (those are much more expensive) and wider tires (255/40/17), otherwise will run stock rims with 235/45/17 Direzza Z1 Star-spec.

Brakes are planned to be retained stock pistons with SS lines (Techna-Fit), Racing Brake ET500 (or is it much more beneficial to run ET700?), Motul RBF600 (already there) and perhaps Girodisc 2-piece slotted rotors all the way (depends on the money).

Could you, guys, please comment on whether I'm on the right way, whether I should consider any important things to be added or some not so important to be removed from the list or changed to other?

I will highly appreciate any meaningful inputs. {thumbup}

Thanks.

PS wheel alignment I believe should be something like -2/-1.5 camber in the front/rear, 0/0.5 toe in the front/rear and maximum caster in the result

Go with the 24mm rear whiteline swaybar instead of the 22.

everything else looks good to me though. that's a very good set-up either as foundation for later mods or all by itself.

alignment settings look good too, although i prefer 0 toe front and rear.



- andrew

That's a lotta bushings; wowser! As it's been said; that'll be a heck of a foundation. Personally I think you could get a good set of coilovers slapped on - aligned - and probably be better right out of the box. BUT, if you're thinking long term; you're on the better mod path.

Down the road when you buy rims; go for 9" or the 8.5" especially if you're going to run 255's. Less sidewall flex/roll will give you better response, fell and tire wear.

I would do a MR Bilstein Strut with Swift Springs. I think that was the best strut/spring combo I've ever ran. I've moved onto Bilstein PSS9's and I highly recommend those for a daily driver coilover.

I've been running the ET700's for almost a year now. While they are decent on the daily drive, quiet and very low dusting I think I am stepping it up to the ET800's or 900's next time. During my last summer trackday, it just felt like I could use a more aggressive pad after about 10 minutes of lapping.

As was 100% correctly noted the setup is planned to be the foundation, which can give improvements by itself. At the moment I can't afford involving change of the struts/springs, however this is being kept in mind to be done at a later stages. When that moment comes I will search for decent solution in the area. But as of now (i.e. next season) I just want to put all the small things right to make sure everything is ready to support the development of my driving skills and eventually further development of the car's technical specifications. :)

As of now I see following changes to be made to the initial list:

1) RSB 24mm instead of 22mm (thanks Andrew)
2) consider wheels alignment to be neutral in respect of toe (thanks Andrew once again)
3) switch to wider tires (255 width) only together with change of rims to wider ones (thanks boomn29)
4) consider ET700 pads instead of ET500 (thanks RichC)

I will highly appreciate any other suggestions or recommendations in case there are any to be presented. {thumbup}

Thanks for all the inputs. :)

no prob VD, if you have more questions about Racing Brake products, PM Peter Tiebout.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/me...r-tiebout.html

You can run 255/40's on stock wheels without rubbing but the angle on the sidewall with a 255 is better for handling on a 9" wide wheel. I run 17x9 5zigens with 255/40 for my summer setup. They look good on the evo in matt black.

The Energy master kit should include rear diff bushings so you won't need to get the Beatrush ones. I personally have the RB ET500 pads and am very happy with them for street and autocross duty. I recommend ATE Blue fluid instead of Motul though; cheaper and requires less frequent flushes and its specs are almost as good.

Hi all!

Time goes closer to the season opening and some things go to the end. :D My stock front KYB shocks are sounding really bad and that way they tell me thay are blown. :crap: Hence, in addition to the above mentioned things I should consider some swap for that part. :rolleyes:

As of now I've virtually closed the issue with brakes (Girodisc 2-piece F/R slotted rotors are paid and on their way, Techna-Fit SS lines are in the trunk, RB ET700 pads are pre-ordered), bushings are semi-done (PSRS and WL Steering Precision Kit and WL Front Control Arm bushing kit are in the trunk, other WL bushings (I've decided to go for that over ES kit) are pre-ordered) and I'm pretty sure regarding the tires (will stick with 2nd set of Direzza Z1 Star-specs in 235/45/17). Not enough money for new rims - hence stock Enkei and, consequently, stock tire size.

Now the issue is - due to the semi-absence of the stock KYB shocks as of now I consider where to go in this respect. After reading a lot here and there I've came to the following conclusions:

1) there is no idea to go for coilovers lower than custom KW (more than $1,800 in terms of budget) if you want to get smooth ride over bumpy roads and ability to track the car from time to time
2) if there's a need to change the suspension and you're on the budget best bet is Bilstein HD shocks, GTWORX or Swift springs and swaybars

Out of that I have few questions:

1) do I need to change the swaybars to get good results (I mean is it worth it if the budget is limited)?
2) do I need to change the swaybars end-links and stout mount?
3) what springs are the most recommended in terms of both performance and DD comfort if I care about not lowering the car too much?

Any meaningful suggestions and comments are highly appreciated. :thumbup:

If you don't care about lowering the car too much, I think our springs are the answer. It's a mild 20mm drop front and 15mm rear....Swifts are 35mm front. We maintain as much suspension travel and the best suspension geometry as possible while increasing the rates beyond the Swifts.

More travel to soak up bumps, better suspension geometry, and slightly firmer spring rates.

Swaybars are not needed, but they do make a large improvement.

Endlinks and stout mounts are not needed for your application.

- Andrew

What springs are you talking about and are they beyond the swift spec r spring rates?

The title says light suspension modifications - lol.


The setup looks very nice, I have a few Whiteline parts on my car. A lot more feedback that's for sure ! :)

A full set of coilovers are worth the extra money IMO. That car will handle very nicely!

I like that not too low approach very much. Roads and parkings here in Ukraine are sometimes demanding in terms of clearance and due to this fact I'd highly prefer to have 125mm under the car, than 110mm. {thumbup}

The situation with springs, swaybars, end-links and stout mounts is clear now.

Andrew, could you please also confirm the Bilsteins HD are rebuildable shocks (I've seen it somewhere in SmikeEvo's comparisons (great read, btw {thumbup})?

Do I need to provide any additional information regarding the use of the car and expectation for the shocks/springs combo to be pre-set in some specific way or it is ordered as is without need/possibility to make any changes? :rolleyes:

Thanks for all the inputs. {thumbup}{thumbup}{thumbup}

We make our own GTWORX springs. The rates are in between Swift Sports and Swift Spec R's and as linear as possible.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...hlins-ast.html

Bilstein HDs are rebuildable all over the world.

- Andrew

Is there any particular reason that you're choosing 235/45/17 over 245/40/17? You'd still be fine on stock rims...

No clearly correct evidence on that, I just don't want to have too much sidewall flex which looks like to be expected for combo of relatively wide tires with relatively narrow rims. However, it's only theoretical thoughts and I'll appreciate recommendations on that from from more experienced users (than I am). :)

I think that it would probably be wise to take some of that money and put it toward a set of used springs (I happen to be taking a set of robispec's off my car shortly). I think that you might be selling yourself short spending a lot of money on things other than springs. I can tell you that by adding the robispec springs to a completely stock suspension with no other mods made a TON of difference. Pretty incredible.

I think you're thinking about it too much. :) You want as much contact patch as possible. Period. A 245/40/17 tire has a shorter (and thus stiffer) sidewall than a 235/45/17. Even if the sidewall was more flexible, it would still be trumped by the increased grip. You could even consider a 255/40/17; lots of people like that size for stock rims.

Wide tires with wide rims would be ideal. Wide tires with stock rims is still better than stock. Stock sized tires with stock rims is, well, stock. {thumbup}

Good input. {thumbup} Thank you for that. :)

So now there is another question - stock rims with 255/40/17 and rubbring issues. I've looked through the dedicated thread with photos and there are two types of reviews - no rubbing or shaving/rolling needed. Hence I'll appreciate the real life experience sharing on this. :rolleyes:

I'm not crazy about 255 on stock rims...it works fine but sometimes as wide as possible isn't the way to go all things considered. 245 is fine.


- drew

ES master kit was the single best suspension mod I did.

So I am quite close to have my car back from the service and feel need to share the information on the setup I ended up with with the community. After taking into account all the reasonable inputs here and in other threads I've ordered following parts (not only suspension, but I 'll list all of them here):

First of all the suspension things:
1) Bilstein HD shocks (luckily I've been successful in getting them from Tirerack - thanks Neal)
2) GTWORX springs (uncountable thanks to Andrew for the insights and recommendations)
3) Perrin PSRS with offset (we'll see how long it will survive on the rather horrible roads here in Ukraine)
4) WL Front Control Arm Bushing Kit (W0593)
5) WL Roll Center Adjustment Kit (KCA395)
6) WL Bump Steer Correction Kit (KCA388)
7) WL Rear Arms Bushings (W0589, W0590, W0591 and W0594)
8) WL 26mm Front Swaybar
9) WL 24mm Adjustable Rear Swaybar
10) front wheel hubs (mine were close to the death so I decided not to wait until they are completely done)

Secondly brakes:
1) Girodisc 2-piece floating rotors both front and rear (many thanks to Johann for his kind support and insights)
2) Ferodo DS2500 brake pads (unfortunately RB ET700 were not available at the moment I ordered the stuff)
3) Techna-Fit SS brake lines

And small more or less important things:
1) Torque Solution Shifter Cable Bushings
2) ES Shifter Base Bushings
3) WL Steering Precision Kit
4) Beatrush Propeller Shaft Mount Bushings
5) Beatrush Rear Differential Mount Spacers augmented with rear support bushings from ES
6) Techna-Fit SS Clutch Line
7) small beautiful things from PIAA (low and high beam Extreme White bulbs, license plate and parking lights Extreme White leds and Silicone wipers)

Tires for this season were chosen to be Direzza Z1 Star spec 245/40/17 on stock rims (thanks again for all the input on this), alignment I've asked about is F1.8/R1.5, zero toe all round.

All the parts are already installed, now waiting to have all the fluids changed and for the alignment. Will get it in my hands on Saturday, hopefully. :)

The most painful things to install were the front swaybar together with WL Steering Precision Kit (as I've been told by the mechanics) and the fact they tried to tighten the bolts on the pre-assembled two-piece Girodisc rotors (was cleared by me according to the instruction and returned back to 7Nm).

The things that are left and possibly can be considered to buy as of now are:

1) AMS Street Front Motor Mount (already ordered, will be installed right after I receive it)
2) rims... thinking of getting 9x17 RPF1 of FN01R-C (my stock rims are almost dead and I want something wide enough but that would not cost me money and a leg)
3) camber/caster plates (in case there will be not enough camber)
4) brake cooling kit (in case I need that I'll most likely ask my mechanic to do the custom one)
5) Ti brake pads shims (depends on the performance of the brakes under abuse)

As well I'd like to express my gratitude to the vendors who supplied me with all those great (I hope so) things - most of all maperformance (great pricing and exceptional customer care), GTWORX (Andrew's insights cannot be measured - those are more than I can express), Girodisc (perfect insights and great customer care from Johann), CVRMotorsports (Bryan is very friendly and offers great things) and Tirerack (perfectly clear ordering procedure and great customer care from Neal). {thumbup}{thumbup}{thumbup}

So far I hope I'm done with the suspension and brakes. Out from this I've already ordered Tactrix Openport 2.0 cable and thinking of Maperformance O2 eliminator downpipe, Tanabe Medallion Touring (or Fujitsubo Legalis-R - want to keep it quiet) cat-back, ETS Intercooler Piping Kit and ETS Small Battery Kit.

I'll keep this updated once I have the Evo back for some time to feel all the changes from the parts installed so far. :)

That is gonna be one awesome EVO!

Glad we could help. :)

- Andrew Sekellick (shame about Ukraine's world cup run this year...:()

looks pretty awesome, good to see you're upgrading all the stock bushings - one other thing you may want to consider, gruppe-s acd reflash or ralliart acd ecu - totally changes the handling of the car (for the better) - check out this thread -

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...t9as-read.html

Actually my Evo is EDM and it is equipped with AYC, hence it is unlikely that I can gain something significantly with the reflash as it seems that it will disable the AYC. :( Also I am located far from the US and it would be really complicated and take quite some time to ship the ACD ECU to the Gruppe-S and back. But the topic you've started is great - makes things easier to understand and put all that options in one place in easy to understand manner. :thumbup:

Andrew - your comments and articles throughout the EvoM are brilliant pieces of great knowledge and clear explanations. These things made it much much easier for me to select the parts and proceed with the understanding what do I want to get and how that should be made. {thumbup}

So far today I've made small test drive on the car with all those things installed. It was a short ride around the station, but the impressions are very good - it handles much more robust and precisely (as far as I can see from the short ride in the city) and I really like that manners. Exterior also changed - slightly lower, with slightly wider tires, and that look is much better than it was before. {thumbup}

Will keep this updated after coming back from the amateur rally event which will take place on 1-2 May on the mountain roads near the sea. :)

Have smth for the update. Placed 2nd in the class and 3rd overall (first overall was GrN STi) in the event that took place last weekend. :)

Action shot:

http://autosport.crimea.ua/uploads/p...x_45ac9755.jpg

Unable to express how happy I am with the way the car handles - unbelievable improvement from the stock suspension. It is now perfectly stable, sharp, controllable, and at the same time even more comfortable, than before. {thumbup}

Friend of mine who also owns EDM EvoIX was impressed with the improvements as well and feel like to have similar setup. But there is thing that he want to have different - I'll ask that here, hope that people with knowledge will share those. :)

Though the GTWORX springs lower the car by only 20mm in front he want to keep the drop even less. So far I've found the only way to manage this by installing Cusco camber plates, according to TouringBubble review they regain 5mm of the height. Are there any other possibilities to make the drop smaller? Are all camber plates affecting the drop equally?

Also, can GTWORX camber/caster plates be fitted with HDs and GTWORX springs and, if yes, what the effect on total drop will be in case of such setup? :rolleyes:

Awesome! Glad to hear everything worked out. :)

Got your PM, will respond soon.

Do you have a high resolution/quality picture of your car in action that we can use for our catalog?

- Andrew

Good info, thanks guys. I'm trying to decide if a rear sway is worth it for my setup and driving style. I have Swifts and do a handful of autocrosses.

I've installed both front and rear Whiteline swaybars (26mm front and 24mm adjustable rear) and so far I'm so happy with them. Rear is set to the softest position, but I think once I get used to the setup I'll other settings as well. Also I've heard good things about Swift swaybars. :) From what I've noticed (significantly redued body roll) swaybars seem to be really good addon to the suspension of the Evo. {thumbup}


Andrew, see the links for the full size photos of my Evo in action (on the current setup, with GTWORX springs):

http://rapidshare.com/files/386152430/IMG_5987.JPG.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/386153493/IMG_5989.JPG.html

Would be happy if you'll find it suitable to include any in the catalog. {thumbup}

[QUOTE=vd;8295570]I've installed both front and rear Whiteline swaybars (26mm front and 24mm adjustable rear) and so far I'm so happy with them. Rear is set to the softest position, but I think once I get used to the setup I'll other settings as well. Also I've heard good things about Swift swaybars. :) From what I've noticed (significantly redued body roll) swaybars seem to be really good addon to the suspension of the Evo. {thumbup}QUOTE]

Thanks, I'm trying to avoid doing the front since it's a pain to do. Is doing just the rear worth it?

This was a great read!! {thumbup} Gave me some ideas for the future of my 8.

Thanks for the pics! They are great and we will definitely include them in our upcoming catalog.

- Andrew

Looking back I've actually got a very similar set up (gtworx springs, bilstein hds, the same whiteline bushings) minus the sway bars - how's everything working out for you? I've been looking into upgrading control arms and endlinks themselves, was wondering if anyone could chime in on that topic - with the addition of the acd reflash and cusco 1.5 rear i've been getting power oversteer when i autocross which has been awesome too =]

so far everything is great for me, I've made 5kmiles with the setup, including 2 events and 1 track-day. Only no so good thing is that rear swaybar makes clunking noise, due to the contact with rear differential body. I believe these is due to the fact that I have EDM EvoIX equipped with AYC, which is supposedly different in shape with non-AYC USDM Evos. :)