EndlessRed

iTrader: (17)

Got my car back from Cobb yesterday. My main objective was to see how much I can get out of 91 pump gas, full bolt-ons (plus some supporting internals), and an upgraded turbo.

Mods:

T1R exhaust
AMS O2 widemouth, intake
AGP intercooler
ARC pipes
FP Black (JB)
MIL.SPEC 64mm TB
MAP Rev. 3 intake manifold (with matching 64mm port)
ID 1000cc
Deatschwerks drop-in pump
Full-Race ProStock manifold
Cosworth MX1 cams
GSC Stage 2 springs + seats
Stock block
91oct (ugh)

Result: 442hp/351tq



It was mildly disappointing. Here's why (beside that I hit 450 earlier apparently but with colder air):

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...-pisstane.html

This was a very similar setup, without the TB and the manifolds, and even with the extras, I only managed to eek out about 10 more horsepower at the wheel. The main problem was that the 91oct is just not cutting it; the charge was getting hot, and it's about as far as 91oct will ever get here.

I could yield more if I beef up the short block as well, but at this point the return will be much greater if one decides to jump to alternative fuels like race gas or E85.

The supporting mods like the manifolds and TB just doesn't play that much of a role here, especially when the FP black's real potential is still sealed due to in-place limitations. Even if I suppose I went with the green instead, the yields from the manifolds are presumably still not that great.

So, a good number of people already preached about this, and I'll just reiterate: FP black is best used with alternative fuels, especially if your only option is 91 pump. In that case, going with the green is probably the best bang for the dollar. Also, manifold upgrades are only worthwhile for those pushing a LOT of volume. For your FP red/green/BBX/Dom/EF turbos, skipping the manifold upgrades and putting that money to other areas is probably the best idea.

tscompusa

iTrader: (31)

the only thing a smaller turbos gonna do with lower octane fuel is limit your HP even further. the more air the turbo can produce per pound the more power its going to make with lower octane knock prone fuel. regardless if the turbo can respond better with more boost or not when pushed on higher octane fuels.

a bigger turbo can flow more lb/min at less boost which keeps temps down, which in turn allows more room for power.. vs a smaller turbo working harder, producing hotter air creating a more possibility for detonation to occur. you sacrifice low end response for top end.. but these are 4 cyl cars. fp black is not a bad option for your fuel imo.

take your setup, remove the fp black and put a green in place. you will not make the same HP as long as it was tuned to the max on the fp black which 450 on a mustang is up there for a black on 91oct. i think you're expecting to much from the car on knock prone fuel.

also biggest mistake i read.. you're comparing your dyno graph to someone elses. how do you know the dynos read the same? the dyno you're on may read a good bit lower.

also the FMIC holds a very big responsibility when it comes to these low octane fuels. so keep that in mind.

EndlessRed

iTrader: (17)

I'm inclined to say so that I was probably expecting too much, coming from not knowing the real limitations of 91oct. I'll readily admit that I had no idea what the limits of 91oct are, up till the tune was completed.

The dyno for the other post, from hb speed, was what cobb socal used to be. Yes, it's different dynos, however it's the closest comparison I've got. Come to think of it I should have asked for a baseline pull before the black was dropped in.

I think what bothers me the most though is the lack of low-end torque and the meager torque gains overall. That's why I was recommending the green. I expected as much, but actually driving in it is, well, let's say a different experience. On that same day, someone else went on the same dyno with a red and made less hp but more torque with less modifications. Again, it's expected, but it's enough to make me believe that manifold upgrades are just not warranted here.

Compound the results with my upcoming autox meet and, like you said, makes me think I should have went with a green. I went through this with max hp in mind though, so it's a good lesson in how turbos react to mods either way.

tscompusa

iTrader: (31)

sounds like you enjoy low end more then top end. which i can understand. you are correct though, the tubular mani is usually something people buy at the end when they are trying to squeeze out the very last bit of power from their setup. that does help top end a bit, but low end it wont. the runner length dictates what it does also. if its a long runner, then its going to cause you lag but make more top end, if short runner you will spool good, but sacrifice top end as far as that parts concerned.

the map rev 3 im sure you got more mid range then normally. i wouldnt say that was a bad mod. that is giving you your mid range torque and so forth & helping top end.

i know you probably expected way more gains based on the prices of the additional parts though.. some parts just do not do much for their price tag. i would keep the map rev 3 on the car though.

that is a mustang dyno at the very least im sure its 8% less then a dynojet. which is putting you around 480-490 which is very good for 91oct. dont let the number fool you!

BakaUnchi

Fyi the HB Speed dyno (mine) was calibrated the same as the COBB Mustang

sssp

iTrader: (4)

Your mods are very similar to mine. I've got the kelford cams, and don't have the TB. I've got a tubular manifold and blouch WG actuator, and a 3.5" Primo Intake. I am also on 93 octane. You make the same power as me, but that's not what I'm mainly looking at. (Different cities, dynos, weather conditions etc. play a roll in that.)
What I am wondering, is how did you get your turbo to spool so early??
Looks like you have full spool at 4000ish rpm
I'm at 4750ish rpm.

AlphaKennyBody

iTrader: (2)

I dont know why your "mildly dissapointed" as I'm not sure if your going based on solely numbers.....

The link you posted above where based on "DJ" numbers... as even highlighted in that graph.

Your Graph and numbers reflect sssp's graph.

You shouldn't be down based on your numbers... Your car as to be quick. Keep in mind dyno's are only tuning tools. Unless your worried about setting some HP record then yeah don't worry about it.

Good numbers.... as some say, "add 15%" to your current numbers if you want see what it MAY do on a DJ:

508hp / 403tq (this is your numbers plus 15%)
504hp / 400tq (14%)

Jubey97

iTrader: (1)

All that power on stock block, I wouldn't be disappointed. I'm pretty sure the tuner hold back being on stock bottom end. I bet it pulls like a beast.

st0mp860

iTrader: (6)

Still very impressive numbers. What numbers were you shooting for?

VQChris

I'm gonna take a guess and say 500whp?

EndlessRed

iTrader: (17)

for sure next year when i get a shortblock and E85.

I was expecting higher numbers though...and the late spool didn't help me on my autox session. Had to downshift more often to wring power out of it. Like I said, I was going for pure horsepower when I went with the Black, and when I found out I can actually push far more out of the Black, that was probably when my heart sank like the titanic

Nonetheless though, I'm happy with it as is. When the boost kicks in, the car flies. Until next year, yeah?