Having some issues with S-AWC system
Apr 10, 2013, 01:20 PM
#1
*UPDATE*Having some issues with S-AWC system
Hey guys, so I'm having some sort of issue with my S-AWC system. Today was the first time it's happened, but I'm just driving along and out of the blue, the mode that I'm in (doesn't matter if I'm in Tarmac, Gravel, or even Snow mode) starts flashing on and off, and the line in the center of the display disappears. It's not throwing a CEL or anything so I don't really know what to do. Should I take it to the dealership, it's still in the 60k warranty?
Fwiw, it's been hot as hell today, and this is the first time I've ever had any issue like this with it.
***Update as of 19 MAY 2013***
I posted the update to the last page, but in case you're to lazy...
Sorry for the long time no update thing.
anyways so here is what happened basically. Again, to clarify, this was NOT covered under the Mitsubishi warranty. Long story short, it was covered by the limited warranty that came with the car since I bought it (had just purchased it in January).
I have pictures of the pump that I will upload later on, but from what I saw the pump was jacked. Leaking fluid from every crevice and so on.
The dealer/tech basically said that the pump had gotten corroded (which most of us should know/have known already) and the viscosity of the fluid played a role in the failure.
I only had issues when it was warmer outside, what would happen is the fluid would get thinner, thereby making it easier for the fluid to escape the pump, and the pump not being able to get a good seal. So basically the pump was spinning up, constantly trying to get to a sustainable pressure (290 psi I believe), and would then overheat and put itself into a safety mode to keep from burning up the electric motor (which was fine btw).
I can tell everyone here that this is going to be a permanent issue if you live anywhere that salt is put down on the roads/snow/freezing temps. It is a known factory default (as I have said before) and Mitsubishi doesn't have any plans to change it in the near future.
So if I were you I would look into some sort of protection method for your ACD pumps guys. I know someone had brought up a group buy a few months ago that nobody seemed to have interest in. But I'd rather spend $150-$250 to protect it now knowing that if I don't I'm going to have to replace it in 2-3 years.....
Fwiw, it's been hot as hell today, and this is the first time I've ever had any issue like this with it.
***Update as of 19 MAY 2013***
I posted the update to the last page, but in case you're to lazy...
Sorry for the long time no update thing.
anyways so here is what happened basically. Again, to clarify, this was NOT covered under the Mitsubishi warranty. Long story short, it was covered by the limited warranty that came with the car since I bought it (had just purchased it in January).
I have pictures of the pump that I will upload later on, but from what I saw the pump was jacked. Leaking fluid from every crevice and so on.
The dealer/tech basically said that the pump had gotten corroded (which most of us should know/have known already) and the viscosity of the fluid played a role in the failure.
I only had issues when it was warmer outside, what would happen is the fluid would get thinner, thereby making it easier for the fluid to escape the pump, and the pump not being able to get a good seal. So basically the pump was spinning up, constantly trying to get to a sustainable pressure (290 psi I believe), and would then overheat and put itself into a safety mode to keep from burning up the electric motor (which was fine btw).
I can tell everyone here that this is going to be a permanent issue if you live anywhere that salt is put down on the roads/snow/freezing temps. It is a known factory default (as I have said before) and Mitsubishi doesn't have any plans to change it in the near future.
So if I were you I would look into some sort of protection method for your ACD pumps guys. I know someone had brought up a group buy a few months ago that nobody seemed to have interest in. But I'd rather spend $150-$250 to protect it now knowing that if I don't I'm going to have to replace it in 2-3 years.....
Last edited by mshilto89; May 19, 2013 at 08:55 AM. Reason: Updates
Apr 13, 2013, 09:24 AM
#5
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My did the same thing with only 4,000 miles on it. Check the ayc fluid in the trunk. I would always be low even after topping it off the day before. Dealer found that the rear diff was f***ed. They replaced it under warranty which was over a 5K job. So I was happy they fixed with no out of pocket expense for me, but the evo was out for almost two weeks.
Apr 17, 2013, 08:05 AM
#7
Hey everyone, so here's what happened. Went in, explained the issue, car was taken to the service bay. As it turns out I needed 2 different flashes. One for my "AWC ECU REPROGRAMMING FOR DTC C161E- ELECTRIC PUMP ISSUE", and the other was for the "ECM REPROGRAMMING FOR DTC P0016 OR P0017: CRANKSHAFT/CAMSHAFT POSITION"
Honestly I'm suprised that these weren't taken care of before I purchased the vehicle in January. The AWC TSB was released on March 2011 and the Crank/Cam position was released on February 2012.
The crank/cam is what was causing the CEL to be thrown for those interested. Also, I ran into the same issue in the video above yesterday all the way in too work.
Just trying to get all the facts in here, I did drive the vehicle home this morning and had no issues with S-AWC and no CEL's being thrown. So that's good news. I have all the paperwork and will eventually put it up here but I'm going on 24 hours of sleep so for now I'm out. Also, didn't have to pay the $116 diagnostic fee, it was covered under warranty. Fingers crossed this will be the last issue I have with it.
Honestly I'm suprised that these weren't taken care of before I purchased the vehicle in January. The AWC TSB was released on March 2011 and the Crank/Cam position was released on February 2012.
The crank/cam is what was causing the CEL to be thrown for those interested. Also, I ran into the same issue in the video above yesterday all the way in too work.
Just trying to get all the facts in here, I did drive the vehicle home this morning and had no issues with S-AWC and no CEL's being thrown. So that's good news. I have all the paperwork and will eventually put it up here but I'm going on 24 hours of sleep so for now I'm out. Also, didn't have to pay the $116 diagnostic fee, it was covered under warranty. Fingers crossed this will be the last issue I have with it.
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Apr 17, 2013, 08:12 AM
#8
OH! And for those of you wondering about the ACD pump being covered under warranty, you're sol if you're over 3yrs 36k miles. Confirmed with the dealer that the pump IS NOT covered under the 5 yr 60k mile warranty. Service rep I spoke with said he had a situation last month and Mitsubishi REFUSED TO WARRANTY the pump. Customer was still within the 5 yr and was turned down by MMNA. Also said that the part is roughly $1200 and labor is between $600-$700, so after taxes, you're looking at a $2K job. Just putting that out there.
He also did confirm that you CAN drive with a dead ACD pump, but he said anything past 1k miles is going to start screwing stuff up. I personally will be saving money up now, was planning on going full bolt-ons by the end of the summer, not now.....
He also did confirm that you CAN drive with a dead ACD pump, but he said anything past 1k miles is going to start screwing stuff up. I personally will be saving money up now, was planning on going full bolt-ons by the end of the summer, not now.....
Apr 17, 2013, 10:28 PM
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OH! And for those of you wondering about the ACD pump being covered under warranty, you're sol if you're over 3yrs 36k miles. Confirmed with the dealer that the pump IS NOT covered under the 5 yr 60k mile warranty. Service rep I spoke with said he had a situation last month and Mitsubishi REFUSED TO WARRANTY the pump. Customer was still within the 5 yr and was turned down by MMNA. Also said that the part is roughly $1200 and labor is between $600-$700, so after taxes, you're looking at a $2K job. Just putting that out there.
He also did confirm that you CAN drive with a dead ACD pump, but he said anything past 1k miles is going to start screwing stuff up. I personally will be saving money up now, was planning on going full bolt-ons by the end of the summer, not now.....
He also did confirm that you CAN drive with a dead ACD pump, but he said anything past 1k miles is going to start screwing stuff up. I personally will be saving money up now, was planning on going full bolt-ons by the end of the summer, not now.....
I see your S-AWC is flashing again. That really sucks...I'd take one last trip back to the dealer, you never know if it might another flash or something they missed. I would do this before committing to the pump rebuild.
If you do rebuild, please post up a full thread full of pics and info on the process. I'm sure others would be very interested to see it. Best of luck bro and keep us updated on your progress!
Apr 19, 2013, 07:50 PM
#13
This will be my final post in this thread, simply because I am for lack of a better word, f***ing pissed. So if I come off as a dick towards anyone, I apologize in advance.
I bought this car with exactly 37,300 miles on the odometer, on exactly January 15 2013. I began having issues last week April 9 2013, less than 3 months since I had purchased it. In Mitsubishi's defense I currently have put roughly 5,000 miles on it since then. I called the dealer last week immediately after I began having issues with it. They were sure to tell me about the $116 diagnostic fee, the service woman reminded me of that 3 different times on the phone.
So to kind of back track here, when I went up to buy the car, the sales team was VERY helpful in getting me the car. Even when I was about to walk out the door they came back and gave me the terms that I had requested (payment no higher than xxx and loan term of xxx). I even personally know the sales rep at the dealer, and he is good people(the service dept is another story), however, I don't think it's so much on a dealer level at this point.
First off, so I went to my appt Wednesday morning. Took it into the bay and turns out there were 2 ECU flashes (as I mentioned above). Now I don't understand fully how a TSB works, but I was under the impression, that if I'm going to buy a used vehicle, that the dealer would have checked this before hand? However, the way that I was told a TSB works, they only flash it or perform the TSB when it becomes a problem.
That's strike one Mitsubishi...
Next, after getting the flashes done, I went in to talk to the service rep, who informed me that he had to make sure that the flashes were going to be covered under warranty. W.T.F? If it is a nation/worldwide TSB, how would it not be covered under warranty? As it turns out, they WERE covered, however after being dragged through all this s*** and waiting around at the dealer for 2+ hours after working a nightshift, I was still pretty pissy.
So just in case, that's strike two Mitsubishi...
NEXT UP!!! Here is my biggest issue about the entire situation. After I left the dealer, I continued to get the flashing S-AWC. The dealer basically did absolutely nothing, which I had an idea was going to happen anyways, so I was prepared to be without a car since I THOUGHT it would be covered under warranty. Not so good for me though, after I explained to the service rep what the issue probably was (ACD pump) he made it his priority to inform me that it was NOT covered under the powertrain warranty. Which makes no sense that a necessary component of the drivetrain, the part that MAKES THE EFFING CAR WHAT IT IS, is NOT covered by the POWERTRAIN warranty?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
That's strike three Mitsubishi...
Finally, on to the dealer. I have never been so **** poorly supported here. First off, upon purchasing the vehicle, I discovered that they registered the vehicle to the wrong address. I'm not even going to divulge into how much of a pita that has been, and still is. However, the part that infuriates me beyond ANYTHING else, is such a lack of caring after selling the vehicle. The fact that this has happened less than 3 months after I purchased the vehicle, and it just happens to break? I may be over-reacting about it, but if I spend 30k+ of my dollars on something, I'd like to know it's going to f***ing work the way it's supposed too. This is strike 4-100 if there were that many to give.
After this whole ordeal, I went over to another shop that I'm not going to name, but I will say that in the 30 minutes that I spoke with them, I got more useful information than I got from the dealer throughout the entire process that I went through.
Closing out my rant, I will leave everyone with this. I never knew why people complained about how crappy Mitsubishi is with their warranty, I know now. I love my Evo, and I'm gonna do everything in my power to keep the car forever. But I am finished with any more Mitsubishi products. I will never purchase another vehicle from them ever again, and unless I need a part that is only made by them, I have NO intention of ever buying anything else AT ALL from them. I have purchased 4 vehicles in my lifetime, this is by far the worst experience I have EVER had.
At this point I am going to do a pump rebuild, I haven't gotten any more CEL's or the service AWD signal yet, but the S-AWC system is almost constantly flashing anytime it gets above 65 degrees. Before I do a rebuild, I'm going to attempt to flush the pump out, there could be the possibility that there is some air in the lines or something. I honestly don't know, but why am I going to go to the dealer in the event that it IS the pump going bad, and it's not even going to be replaced under warranty?
And some more FYI's (I'm sure most of you know this already) These pumps are a KNOWN problem. The metal on the pumps fluctuates in the cold and hot weather, so during the winter months, the metal shrinks, salt, grime, and all the other road gunk gets in there. Then, when warm weather rolls around, the metal expands, and forms a seal around all that gunk, which causes the insides of the pump to corrode. This is a design failure from Mitsubishi and they are well aware of it.
TL;DR Eff Mitsubishi
I bought this car with exactly 37,300 miles on the odometer, on exactly January 15 2013. I began having issues last week April 9 2013, less than 3 months since I had purchased it. In Mitsubishi's defense I currently have put roughly 5,000 miles on it since then. I called the dealer last week immediately after I began having issues with it. They were sure to tell me about the $116 diagnostic fee, the service woman reminded me of that 3 different times on the phone.
So to kind of back track here, when I went up to buy the car, the sales team was VERY helpful in getting me the car. Even when I was about to walk out the door they came back and gave me the terms that I had requested (payment no higher than xxx and loan term of xxx). I even personally know the sales rep at the dealer, and he is good people(the service dept is another story), however, I don't think it's so much on a dealer level at this point.
First off, so I went to my appt Wednesday morning. Took it into the bay and turns out there were 2 ECU flashes (as I mentioned above). Now I don't understand fully how a TSB works, but I was under the impression, that if I'm going to buy a used vehicle, that the dealer would have checked this before hand? However, the way that I was told a TSB works, they only flash it or perform the TSB when it becomes a problem.
That's strike one Mitsubishi...
Next, after getting the flashes done, I went in to talk to the service rep, who informed me that he had to make sure that the flashes were going to be covered under warranty. W.T.F? If it is a nation/worldwide TSB, how would it not be covered under warranty? As it turns out, they WERE covered, however after being dragged through all this s*** and waiting around at the dealer for 2+ hours after working a nightshift, I was still pretty pissy.
So just in case, that's strike two Mitsubishi...
NEXT UP!!! Here is my biggest issue about the entire situation. After I left the dealer, I continued to get the flashing S-AWC. The dealer basically did absolutely nothing, which I had an idea was going to happen anyways, so I was prepared to be without a car since I THOUGHT it would be covered under warranty. Not so good for me though, after I explained to the service rep what the issue probably was (ACD pump) he made it his priority to inform me that it was NOT covered under the powertrain warranty. Which makes no sense that a necessary component of the drivetrain, the part that MAKES THE EFFING CAR WHAT IT IS, is NOT covered by the POWERTRAIN warranty?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
That's strike three Mitsubishi...
Finally, on to the dealer. I have never been so **** poorly supported here. First off, upon purchasing the vehicle, I discovered that they registered the vehicle to the wrong address. I'm not even going to divulge into how much of a pita that has been, and still is. However, the part that infuriates me beyond ANYTHING else, is such a lack of caring after selling the vehicle. The fact that this has happened less than 3 months after I purchased the vehicle, and it just happens to break? I may be over-reacting about it, but if I spend 30k+ of my dollars on something, I'd like to know it's going to f***ing work the way it's supposed too. This is strike 4-100 if there were that many to give.
After this whole ordeal, I went over to another shop that I'm not going to name, but I will say that in the 30 minutes that I spoke with them, I got more useful information than I got from the dealer throughout the entire process that I went through.
Closing out my rant, I will leave everyone with this. I never knew why people complained about how crappy Mitsubishi is with their warranty, I know now. I love my Evo, and I'm gonna do everything in my power to keep the car forever. But I am finished with any more Mitsubishi products. I will never purchase another vehicle from them ever again, and unless I need a part that is only made by them, I have NO intention of ever buying anything else AT ALL from them. I have purchased 4 vehicles in my lifetime, this is by far the worst experience I have EVER had.
At this point I am going to do a pump rebuild, I haven't gotten any more CEL's or the service AWD signal yet, but the S-AWC system is almost constantly flashing anytime it gets above 65 degrees. Before I do a rebuild, I'm going to attempt to flush the pump out, there could be the possibility that there is some air in the lines or something. I honestly don't know, but why am I going to go to the dealer in the event that it IS the pump going bad, and it's not even going to be replaced under warranty?
And some more FYI's (I'm sure most of you know this already) These pumps are a KNOWN problem. The metal on the pumps fluctuates in the cold and hot weather, so during the winter months, the metal shrinks, salt, grime, and all the other road gunk gets in there. Then, when warm weather rolls around, the metal expands, and forms a seal around all that gunk, which causes the insides of the pump to corrode. This is a design failure from Mitsubishi and they are well aware of it.
TL;DR Eff Mitsubishi
Apr 19, 2013, 08:52 PM
#14
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Hate that for you man. From the dealer to the shop you bought it from, it sure has been a train wreck. I just recently found out the issues these pumps can cause and the ridiculous amount of money it takes to replace one. We have very little salt on our roads here in SC during the winter so I hope that buys my own car some time.
You said its your last post in this thread but if you ever feel like it, do let us know how everything is going and which route you went. Tips from someone replacing this thing would be terrific and I hope you can find and affordable route to fixing the AYC pump and get your Evo back to running as it should =)
You said its your last post in this thread but if you ever feel like it, do let us know how everything is going and which route you went. Tips from someone replacing this thing would be terrific and I hope you can find and affordable route to fixing the AYC pump and get your Evo back to running as it should =)
Apr 19, 2013, 09:22 PM
#15
Yea, I was pretty frustrated about the whole situation, still am, but I'm going to update as I go along for those of us who have similar issues, because it's bound to happen.
Basically there are going to be 3 steps here to do.
Step 1: Flush the entire system to make sure that there are no air pockets in one of the lines. This could possibly be the issue.
Step 2: If the fluid flush does NOT work, we will move on to the pump rebuild. I'm coordinating with a local shop here that knows their s***. I absolutely refuse to let the dealer, or Mitsubishi for that matter touch my car EVER again.
Step 3: Hypothetically the rebuild should be good to resolve the issue. If, in the event that it does not, then I'll have to move up to a completely new pump.
It's really a simple process, however I'm just pissed about the whole situation with Mitsu because they know 100% that this is a design flaw. But I doubt we'll ever see any resolution from Mitsubishi. I'm honestly thinking about taking this higher up, but I really don't know how too. If there is anyone else in here who has had a ACD pump blown and Mitsu has refused to warranty it, I'd like to hear from you. So pass the word around, spread the post, whatever you have to do. This is **** poor customer service, and I'm going to make sure everyone knows it.
Basically there are going to be 3 steps here to do.
Step 1: Flush the entire system to make sure that there are no air pockets in one of the lines. This could possibly be the issue.
Step 2: If the fluid flush does NOT work, we will move on to the pump rebuild. I'm coordinating with a local shop here that knows their s***. I absolutely refuse to let the dealer, or Mitsubishi for that matter touch my car EVER again.
Step 3: Hypothetically the rebuild should be good to resolve the issue. If, in the event that it does not, then I'll have to move up to a completely new pump.
It's really a simple process, however I'm just pissed about the whole situation with Mitsu because they know 100% that this is a design flaw. But I doubt we'll ever see any resolution from Mitsubishi. I'm honestly thinking about taking this higher up, but I really don't know how too. If there is anyone else in here who has had a ACD pump blown and Mitsu has refused to warranty it, I'd like to hear from you. So pass the word around, spread the post, whatever you have to do. This is **** poor customer service, and I'm going to make sure everyone knows it.