Beyond Boltons: What (if anything) to do....
 

I have an 08 GSR, cold air intake, AMS FMIC, widemouth down pipe, hi flow cat, CP exhaust, EBCU, and AMS tune, making 345 whp. Love it. Drivable and fun. I've enjoyed working on the car.

I'm thinking about the next step in power, but not sure if I want to go there. Maybe cams/injectors/new turbo. I know from the forum what to expect in terms of power, but what about drivability (esp. low rpm response), reliability (is the chance of component failure a lot greater?), and resale. Are there other downsides?

Comments very much appreciated.

I think you answered your own question.

Turbo, cams, pump/injectors are next. I've never gone beyond the mods you currently have...but I'm planning on it this time around (previously owned a 2003 Evo 8).

Opening up the engine makes me nervous, but the 4B11T seems reliable if worked on/tuned correctly. Just make the most educated decisions on parts/tuners you can. I'm planning on going with the MHI turbo and Kelford B cams. A less-aggressive set-up, but more likely to retain stock-like power delivery and overall characteristics of the Evo. Like you, the more OEM+ I can keep my mod path, the more peace of mind I'll have.

Risk always increases the more mods you do, but it can be done well if you choose correctly. It's a choice you have to make.

Resale goes down, complexity goes up, resale is a pain with taking off parts-though I imagine the typical Evo buyer might be interested depending on what set-up you go with.

So, to answer your question, yes-there are potentially many downsides. But, you're an enthusiast, for you, the benefits usually outweigh the downsides. :D

Let us know what you do!

Not really necessary to do cams unless you are looking for max HP out of a big turbo.

If I were you, I would do a small turbo and injectors. You may not even need a fuel pump. Get something like a FP Green or MAP 2/2.5 and a set of injectors. That will give you a nice power increase, will still be nice and easy to drive on the street, and keep the engine below it's breaking point.

Stock frame turbo (BBX is a great choice), injectors, fuel pump. Don't really need cams on the X.

You are correct.

However, Kelford B or GSC 2 will give you ~30hp throughout the powerband on say, the MHI turbo (what I've done the most reading about).

There is peace-of-mind from only upgrading the stock frame turbo, but this is more useable power to be had, without changing the power delivery characteristics of the car, with cams.

I used to not want to do cams, but from what I've read, I think I'll take the plunge. Even a more mild cam (Cosworth MX1) will help make a stock frame shine.

I don't like and don't plan to go the big turbo, drag car route. Stock frame turbos & cams help bridge the power gap without changing the characteristics of the car.

you got it

Why would you want to go with GSC 2 cams for such a mild turbo setup? I believe FP Black/EF4 and bigger make use of the GSC 2, use the GSC 1 for milder set up. This will help your spool too, since you will not be shifting your power band to the right. The mx-1 are pretty good all-around from what I have read and are the only ones I'm aware of that are drop in and don't require new springs and retainers.
I have been on my Bbx lite at 400whp for 3 years 20k. I have not noticed any drivability issues from before to now. Only now I want more power and will build the motor, as the EF-4 is on its way.

Like others have said you won't need cams though to have a nice quick setup on that turbo.

Your experience with the BBX Lite is encouraging. My Evo is my DD so I prioritize reliability and driveability over maximum output or 0-60 times. It's also why I want to go with the MHI over a bigger turbo.

I used to be wary of cams too, but from what I've read the Kelford B or GSC 2 is not too much for the MHI or other similar stock-frame turbos. I think it's important to acknowledge the tune that goes with any mod path. If done responsibly, a somewhat aggressive cam will pair perfectly with the MHI. Adding improved springs/retainers is another responsible and simple step if going with say a Kelford B over Cosworth MX1.

While shifting the powerband to the right is an oversimplification, it is somewhat true. It's not that black & white however, power is found everywhere in the RPM range with Kelford B/GSC 2. I used to only want to go MX1, but the more aggressive cam profile is worth it, even on a "mild turbo set-up", as you questioned.

Please update us on your build! I don't want to go that far, but who knows how my mind will change as I move forward. We're enthusiasts, "More!" is our answer for most questions. :lol:

You make a valid point, but in my eyes:

Why put bigger cams in there that require springs and retainers, which allow you to now rev to 9K, but your turbo runs out of breath at 7K.

I know you gain 30-40 whp throughout the band, but you will sacrifice some spool from what I have seen and you just uninstalled your head and reinstalled it.

Unless you are buying new head studs, this is probably not going to result in higher reliability.

Like you stated above, when not worried about 0-60 times and max output, but big on reliability and daily driving, opening up the motor for 30whp seems counterproductive.

Just my 2 cents

This used to be my thinking as well. But from what I read, there are those who believe installing cams are a worthwhile risk. Reading your post has me reconsidering though. I guess I may have marginalized the risk of opening the motor? Along the line it must have come across to me as a somewhat simple procedure. Depending on what you read though, some dismiss it as a piece of cake. I like your caution though, and assume it must be why you haven't added cams to your car. 30-40hp isn't anything to shake a stick at though, and if does actually improve low-end torque (as it appears to on the MHI), it might be worth the risk? I don't know...more to think about. Just when I thought I had my mod path all figured out too, thanks! :lol:

Lol. Same here. I hear others opinions and then sometimes change mine. I learn new stuff every day. But remember I am only a forum reader like you also.

Only reason I have not done them is that I don't want to get any closer to the vent your block point then I already am.
RRE advised me to not install them on my setup, as they said 400whp/350wtq is pretty good and you are entering the danger zone. Shops rarely tell you to save your cash in fist. When the guy asked me if I wanted to be a bada$$ mf on the edge? I got it.

All that being said, I will add gsc2 cams and beehives when I build the motor soon. Which is as we all know about the dumbest thing to spend 5k on lol.

I think the above says a lot, depending on the shop & their knowledge of course. It's nice to think they had your best interests in mind.

I'd still think it also comes down to how you drive/use the car. I like a powerful, good-handling sedan as my daily. I won't take it to the track or see redline much, in all reality, I'll probably only use say 70% of it's actual output the majority of the time. Knowing how well I take car of my cars (and drive like an old lady!), it makes me actually lean towards cams (thinking S1's now that you have me cautious again!). Even if I'm only using 70% of it's power, that 70% is still higher with cams than without. Does my reasoning make sense?

I know it's a slippery slope, and regardless, I'm increasing the risk for failure, but that's my thinking for now at least.

I'd also like to port/polish the OEM exhaust manifold. The MHI would be ported too. Since they'd be removed for the cam install, would adding say, ARP head studs be a logical mod to do at the same time?

This is my list as it stands for now-

AMS UICP ($300) mapperformance.com
AMS DP ($376) vividracing.com
AMS HFC ($249) maperformance.com
Perrin cat-back ($665) gotboostinc.com
AMS intercooler ($735) vividracing.com
Kelford 214B cams ($580) evasive motorsports
ID 1000cc fuel injectors ($475) injectordynamics.com
OR Deatchwerk 1000cc fuel injectors ($490) deatchwerks.com
Cobb turbo inlet pipe for 3" turbo ($125) cobbtuning.com
Deatchwerk (DW65c) compact in-tank fuel pump ($150)
Forced Performance MHI TD06-18K turbo ($1800 w/porting) forcedperformance.net
Forced Performance high flow oil supply line ($200) forcedperformance.net
Kelford single valve springs ($269) boostinperformance.com
Exhaust manifold port & polish ($350)
Cobb Accessport ($450)

Total=__$6,704_________

Sorry to lay it all out there, but whatever, I hope it helps others out there as well as me. :lol:

i agree with them

From your plans above:

I would have them drop mx-1 in, since you won't need springs and retainers. This allows you to install the cams without lifting the head I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you could blow the valves open and slide the cams in. I read this a long time ago.

This might be a good route since you don't open up the block. No new head studs required. I'm sure the power difference will be negligible and you said you never see redline. Again why pay to install springs/retainers to rev to 9k if your turbo and your lead foot run out of steam before that?

Sounds like a good setup you are going for though. Tuners love the IDs, but I think a WB255 or DW300 pump will be a good match for those size injectors.

Thanks for evaluating my plan!

I think I remember reading something about the install you mentioned too. MX-1 would work as well, and a little more peace-of-mind since they aren't too aggressive. I remember seeing posted dynos of the Cosworth cams and they made some nice gains.

Just driving today I reflected on now much I love driving the car, even in stock form. Even coming from my 2012 5.0L Mustang GT I sold, the Evo is such a better car (for me anyway).

Before the power mods I'm thinking about wheels (WedsSport TC105N) and suspension (Ohlin Road & Track coils).

My mod plans outpace my budget. :D